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This is confusing. > eight people who allegedly worked as “recruiters” for the school and collectively helped at least 600 students to remain in the country un

This is confusing. > eight people who allegedly worked as “recruiters” for the school and collectively helped at least 600 students to remain in the country under false pretenses now face federal conspiracy charges If this was a fake university set up by ICE, why are its employees being charged with conspiracy? (The Detroit News article clarifies that the recruiters did not know it was a fake university) And for that matter, how is this whole thing not crystal-clear entrapment, at least for the "recruiter" employees, if not for the "students" themselves? The Detroit News article, again, quotes a law professor / prosecutor as saying "it's not entrapment": > “The government can put out the bait, but it’s up to the defendants to fall for it.” ...but isn't "putting out the bait" what entrapment is? (That's a sincere, not rhetorical question, I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV)

creaghpatr 8y ago
It's not entrapment if the crime (being in the country illegally) was already committed.
- zaroth 8y ago
  No! The crime is not being in the country illegally. The crime is knowingly enrolling in a fake university and claiming student visa status while taking no course work. A sting operation (fake drug buy) is not entrapment. If you walk up to someone and ask them if they want to buy drugs and they do it’s not entrapment. If you threaten them to buy your drugs or pretend you are selling them legal drugs and then hand them something illegal and arrest them, that is entrapment.
  - creaghpatr 8y ago
    It's both.
- benj111 8y ago
  But (assuming the recruiters weren't in on it), the students could be under the impression they were allowed to stay. And so not have done anything to prevent them being in the country illegally.
  - creaghpatr 8y ago
    >Students knew that the scheme was illegal, "and that discretion should be used when discussing the program with others,” prosecutors wrote in their indictment, which was filed Jan. 15 in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan. Not sure if this is actually true but that's what it says in the article.
    - outsidetheparty 8y ago
      Ah, I missed that detail; thank you.
microcolonel 8y ago
AFAIK, genuine entrapment involves directly appealing to suspects to convince them to commit a crime which they would not otherwise have committed. In this case, the those enrolling had clearly intended to misrepresent their visa status, and the recruiters clearly intended to help them with that. As for the "recruiters", I think they mean to say that these were independent people who offered their services and are alleged to have knowingly aided the commission of the unlawful acts (i.e. conspiracy) involved in aiding the misrepresentation of the visa status of those attempting to enroll.
- outsidetheparty 8y ago
  > directly appealing to suspects to convince them to commit a crime which they would not otherwise have committed Hiring recruiters for a fake university would seem to fit this definition nicely. ("Independent people who offered their services" is a funny way of describing "people who applied for and accepted jobs".) I'm also not clear on how, absent specific evidence, it's possible to draw the "which they would not otherwise have committed" line for the students -- did they intend to misrepresent their visa status so applied to this fake university? Or did the recruiter or university encourage the students to apply and therefore misrepresent their visa status? (That said I'm very prepared to accept that there is evidence to support criminal intent on both the recruiters' and students' part which is just absent from the news articles; it just feels odd to assume it automatically.)
  - outsidetheparty 8y ago
    And, belatedly, I see >eight people in eight states who allegedly were students at the school and recruited additional students to enroll ...so not employees as such (presumably the "school" was offering them some financial incentive to do the recruiting work, but if they were students who knew there weren't actual classes etc that makes their intent much clearer.) I grant myself a failing grade for reading comprehension today ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

creaghpatr 8y ago

It's not entrapment if the crime (being in the country illegally) was already committed.

zaroth 8y ago
No! The crime is not being in the country illegally. The crime is knowingly enrolling in a fake university and claiming student visa status while taking no course work. A sting operation (fake drug buy) is not entrapment. If you walk up to someone and ask them if they want to buy drugs and they do it’s not entrapment. If you threaten them to buy your drugs or pretend you are selling them legal drugs and then hand them something illegal and arrest them, that is entrapment.
- creaghpatr 8y ago
  It's both.
benj111 8y ago
But (assuming the recruiters weren't in on it), the students could be under the impression they were allowed to stay. And so not have done anything to prevent them being in the country illegally.
- creaghpatr 8y ago
  >Students knew that the scheme was illegal, "and that discretion should be used when discussing the program with others,” prosecutors wrote in their indictment, which was filed Jan. 15 in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan. Not sure if this is actually true but that's what it says in the article.
  - outsidetheparty 8y ago
    Ah, I missed that detail; thank you.

microcolonel 8y ago

AFAIK, genuine entrapment involves directly appealing to suspects to convince them to commit a crime which they would not otherwise have committed. In this case, the those enrolling had clearly intended to misrepresent their visa status, and the recruiters clearly intended to help them with that. As for the "recruiters", I think they mean to say that these were independent people who offered their services and are alleged to have knowingly aided the commission of the unlawful acts (i.e. conspiracy) involved in aiding the misrepresentation of the visa status of those attempting to enroll.

outsidetheparty 8y ago
> directly appealing to suspects to convince them to commit a crime which they would not otherwise have committed Hiring recruiters for a fake university would seem to fit this definition nicely. ("Independent people who offered their services" is a funny way of describing "people who applied for and accepted jobs".) I'm also not clear on how, absent specific evidence, it's possible to draw the "which they would not otherwise have committed" line for the students -- did they intend to misrepresent their visa status so applied to this fake university? Or did the recruiter or university encourage the students to apply and therefore misrepresent their visa status? (That said I'm very prepared to accept that there is evidence to support criminal intent on both the recruiters' and students' part which is just absent from the news articles; it just feels odd to assume it automatically.)
- outsidetheparty 8y ago
  And, belatedly, I see >eight people in eight states who allegedly were students at the school and recruited additional students to enroll ...so not employees as such (presumably the "school" was offering them some financial incentive to do the recruiting work, but if they were students who knew there weren't actual classes etc that makes their intent much clearer.) I grant myself a failing grade for reading comprehension today ¯\_(ツ)_/¯