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You obviously haven't spent too much time around Europeans. They (we) think about totally different things to Americans in general. Privacy (especially in Germa

You obviously haven't spent too much time around Europeans. They (we) think about totally different things to Americans in general. Privacy (especially in Germany) has always been a hot topic. You can barely use your card to pay for things anywhere in Berlin for example because people use cash to not be tracked.

jdietrich 8y ago
A substantial proportion of Germans remember the Stasi. Some remember the Gestapo. The idea of databases becoming the tools of oppression is not an abstract risk to the German people. Entirely justifiably, they broadly regard bulk collection of personal data as a dire threat to liberty. Many Europeans live with the memory of similarly awful tyrannies, from Franco in Spain to Ceaușescu in Romania. To dismiss those concerns as mere jealousy of Silicon Valley is rather churlish.
- gowld 8y ago
  The Germans might remember something slightly older than the Stasi.
  - jdietrich 8y ago
    I refer you to the second sentence of my comment. With that said, it is worth remembering that only a small number of very elderly people have meaningful first-hand memories of the social and political circumstances of the 1930s and 1940s. The Stasi is clearly a more pertinent example of the perils of mass surveillance. The scale and sophistication of their surveillance is the closest historical parallel to contemporary digital surveillance, and many currently-serving politicians and civil servants have first-hand experience of it. Germany is still dealing with the legacy of decades of pervasive surveillance and the billions of records collected by that agency. A notable example of those records is a Stasi identity card, issued to major Vladimir Putin of the KGB. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46525543 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46525543
what_ever 8y ago
> You can barely use your card to pay for things anywhere in Berlin for example I am sorry, that's not true. I was in Berlin, Prague, and Copenhagen last year. Hardly used cash anywhere other that Prague. In Prague, it was only Old Town where I ended up need to visit the ATM. I know because I didn't carry any Euros with me from US and need to pay ATM fees for every withdrawal.
- rorykoehler 8y ago
  I'm not sure where you shop but if you shop like a local it's unlikely you will use your card anywhere but the supermarket. It's getting better but they are way behind. When I first moved to Berlin in 2011 I barely ever used cash and once I landed in Berlin I felt like I had taken a time machine back 20 years.

jdietrich 8y ago

A substantial proportion of Germans remember the Stasi. Some remember the Gestapo. The idea of databases becoming the tools of oppression is not an abstract risk to the German people. Entirely justifiably, they broadly regard bulk collection of personal data as a dire threat to liberty. Many Europeans live with the memory of similarly awful tyrannies, from Franco in Spain to Ceaușescu in Romania. To dismiss those concerns as mere jealousy of Silicon Valley is rather churlish.

gowld 8y ago
The Germans might remember something slightly older than the Stasi.
- jdietrich 8y ago
  I refer you to the second sentence of my comment. With that said, it is worth remembering that only a small number of very elderly people have meaningful first-hand memories of the social and political circumstances of the 1930s and 1940s. The Stasi is clearly a more pertinent example of the perils of mass surveillance. The scale and sophistication of their surveillance is the closest historical parallel to contemporary digital surveillance, and many currently-serving politicians and civil servants have first-hand experience of it. Germany is still dealing with the legacy of decades of pervasive surveillance and the billions of records collected by that agency. A notable example of those records is a Stasi identity card, issued to major Vladimir Putin of the KGB. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46525543 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46525543

what_ever 8y ago

> You can barely use your card to pay for things anywhere in Berlin for example I am sorry, that's not true. I was in Berlin, Prague, and Copenhagen last year. Hardly used cash anywhere other that Prague. In Prague, it was only Old Town where I ended up need to visit the ATM. I know because I didn't carry any Euros with me from US and need to pay ATM fees for every withdrawal.

rorykoehler 8y ago
I'm not sure where you shop but if you shop like a local it's unlikely you will use your card anywhere but the supermarket. It's getting better but they are way behind. When I first moved to Berlin in 2011 I barely ever used cash and once I landed in Berlin I felt like I had taken a time machine back 20 years.