6 ms·

I also grew up in rural Wisconsin, but lived in Madison for several years as well, and I've seen the other side of that coin too. There's plenty of snobby progr

I also grew up in rural Wisconsin, but lived in Madison for several years as well, and I've seen the other side of that coin too. There's plenty of snobby progressives who live in their blue bubble, often working for the state gov't or university, and assume they know what's best for the hicks in the rest of the state. The /r/wisconsin subreddit is full of the type. The tribalism from both ends is definitely disheartening.

bb88 8y ago
The fact that you label the two sides as "hicks" and "snobby progressives" only hurts your stance. I think we can agree that both sides don't typically listen to each other, and if we're all using language like that then we never will. Why should I debate you on medicare subsidies, e.g. if you've labeled me a "snobby progressive" and then have taken the victim role to boot?
- stuart78 8y ago
  I think the poster was using deliberately provocative words to call attention to the emotional angle of the debate, not making those judgements themselves.
  - bb88 8y ago
    Except that it was awfully one-sided and appeared to be labeling actual people directly (those in r/wisconsin)
    - waffle_ss 8y ago
      It was one-sided because I was replying to a comment calling rural Wisconsinites easily-misled Republican voting robots. It was an attempt to show balance in the other side's perspective.
  - waffle_ss 8y ago
    This is what I was going for and I didn't realize my original comment would be misconstrued so badly.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
BooneJS 8y ago
Madison isn’t called “The People’s Republic of Madison” for nothing.
- waffle_ss 8y ago
  Also the original "X square miles surrounded by reality" coined back in 1978 by Lee Sherman Dreyfus that similar cities have since borrowed. :-)
bduerst 8y ago
Hey, I lived in Madison for a time too! As a politically moderate person, I agree that there are neighborhoods in that one blue city in Wisconsin that have an air of snobbery and resentment, but I'm not sure how Madison has made the state vulnerable. I also agree tribalism is part of the issue, but not in the way you do. Whenever I brought up these issues of confirmation bias, the immediate discussion following would be "well whatabout..." or "us vs. them", with them being the hypothetical liberal boogeyman. Or in this case, the "blue bubble". While it is true that Madison is liberal, the Willy-street hippies didn't strip the incoming Governor of his powers, gerrymander political lines, or push to evict Wisconsites from their land so Foxconn could build a plant. Saying "both sides" are the problem does a disservice to Wisconsin by ignoring who has been controlling and responsible for the state for the past decade - who need to be held accountable.
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  I think we can all agree that anyone trying to blame ANY of the people of Wisconsin at this point are just attempts at deflection. Clearly the fault lies with Walker and his cronies. On that everyone can agree. Here's the thing though, it's the people who will have to pay the bill. ALL of us. There's no getting around it. There are a thousand ways for Foxconn to hose us in this agreement, and almost no ways for us to get out of it if I'm understanding this correctly. So you guys, in Madison and in rural Wisconsin, can sit and call each other names until the cows come home, but in the end you'll all be kicking in a sizable chunk of tax money to pay off Foxconn. Just like I will. The best thing that could happen for us is for the whole thing to fall apart, Foxconn to walk away, and we just eat the losses we have taken to date. I know that doesn't give farmers their land back, or give people in southeastern Wisconsin their homes back, but it does allow us to forego any further losses on this thing. (And the families that have already been hosed out of their property were never gonna get their farms back anyway.) Probably won't happen though, this is Wisconsin. Wisconsin politicians are in charge, and there is a lot of money up for grabs. So my own bet would be that come hell or high water, they're gonna find a way to trigger those cash payments to Foxconn. (And consequently, "service" fees I'm sure will be paid to-, and construction contracts will be signed by-, their cronies.)
  - 8y ago

bb88 8y ago

The fact that you label the two sides as "hicks" and "snobby progressives" only hurts your stance. I think we can agree that both sides don't typically listen to each other, and if we're all using language like that then we never will. Why should I debate you on medicare subsidies, e.g. if you've labeled me a "snobby progressive" and then have taken the victim role to boot?

stuart78 8y ago
I think the poster was using deliberately provocative words to call attention to the emotional angle of the debate, not making those judgements themselves.
- bb88 8y ago
  Except that it was awfully one-sided and appeared to be labeling actual people directly (those in r/wisconsin)
  - waffle_ss 8y ago
    It was one-sided because I was replying to a comment calling rural Wisconsinites easily-misled Republican voting robots. It was an attempt to show balance in the other side's perspective.
- waffle_ss 8y ago
  This is what I was going for and I didn't realize my original comment would be misconstrued so badly.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

BooneJS 8y ago

Madison isn’t called “The People’s Republic of Madison” for nothing.

waffle_ss 8y ago
Also the original "X square miles surrounded by reality" coined back in 1978 by Lee Sherman Dreyfus that similar cities have since borrowed. :-)

bduerst 8y ago

Hey, I lived in Madison for a time too! As a politically moderate person, I agree that there are neighborhoods in that one blue city in Wisconsin that have an air of snobbery and resentment, but I'm not sure how Madison has made the state vulnerable. I also agree tribalism is part of the issue, but not in the way you do. Whenever I brought up these issues of confirmation bias, the immediate discussion following would be "well whatabout..." or "us vs. them", with them being the hypothetical liberal boogeyman. Or in this case, the "blue bubble". While it is true that Madison is liberal, the Willy-street hippies didn't strip the incoming Governor of his powers, gerrymander political lines, or push to evict Wisconsites from their land so Foxconn could build a plant. Saying "both sides" are the problem does a disservice to Wisconsin by ignoring who has been controlling and responsible for the state for the past decade - who need to be held accountable.

bilbo0s 8y ago
I think we can all agree that anyone trying to blame ANY of the people of Wisconsin at this point are just attempts at deflection. Clearly the fault lies with Walker and his cronies. On that everyone can agree. Here's the thing though, it's the people who will have to pay the bill. ALL of us. There's no getting around it. There are a thousand ways for Foxconn to hose us in this agreement, and almost no ways for us to get out of it if I'm understanding this correctly. So you guys, in Madison and in rural Wisconsin, can sit and call each other names until the cows come home, but in the end you'll all be kicking in a sizable chunk of tax money to pay off Foxconn. Just like I will. The best thing that could happen for us is for the whole thing to fall apart, Foxconn to walk away, and we just eat the losses we have taken to date. I know that doesn't give farmers their land back, or give people in southeastern Wisconsin their homes back, but it does allow us to forego any further losses on this thing. (And the families that have already been hosed out of their property were never gonna get their farms back anyway.) Probably won't happen though, this is Wisconsin. Wisconsin politicians are in charge, and there is a lot of money up for grabs. So my own bet would be that come hell or high water, they're gonna find a way to trigger those cash payments to Foxconn. (And consequently, "service" fees I'm sure will be paid to-, and construction contracts will be signed by-, their cronies.)
- 8y ago