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> People chose to buy German technology from small to medium enterprises because they get bespoke quality which lasts centuries. They buy American mass-produced

> People chose to buy German technology from small to medium enterprises because they get bespoke quality which lasts centuries. They buy American mass-produced technology for a disposable culture. What is this uniquely German tech that lasts centuries?

exar0815 8y ago
Look on every factory floor. Look in manufactory, look in specialzed machinery. For example: Kuka, Rexroth, Festo, Liebherr, DMG Mori, Bosch, Siemens, Zeiss, Dräger, Infineon, Thyssen Krupp, Aixtron, Osram, Rheinmetall, MTU. No average customer buys anything from them. They dont build the next big thing "Webapp", the next consumer electronics hype or something you use daily. Because its completely B2B. There is no german Facebook or Google or Apple, because Innovation and High Tech happens in the "Mittelstand". You wont ever hear of any of those enterprises, because you aren't their target audience.
- ggm 8y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand Craft style apprenticeship, long lived enterprises with quality focus. Germany is also an economy where university education remains substantively free (to the student) and a course is not structured towards a 2-3 year "get 'm out and move on" model. People can stay in study for quite a lot longer until they are "ready" although I suspect economic pressures might be changing that. (I didn't study there: this is what German people I know tell me about tertiary education in Germany)
- Chlorus 8y ago
  I'm familiar with those firms, but I wouldn't call them Mittelstand enterprises, unless we're calling Siemens and Thyssen Krupp small-to-medium sized. What do they make that lasts centuries that say, General Electric(such as it was) or Halliburton / Bechtel et al don't make? I guess what I'm getting at is that massive generalizations really aren't helpful.
  - ggm 8y ago
    I certainly wouldn't put siemens in mittelstand. But I would put them as worldwide competitive in a range of engineering spaces. You don't buy the story? fair enough. GE trades worldwide, has local affiliates in Europe. They work in the same way inside the european union, but expatriate profit to the US. Halliburton and Bechtel do amazing things, but they also do a bunch of things I personally think are significantly less amazing, like grab serious asset and business from the post iraq war teardown, where the US forces basically said "fuck you" to european companies and awarded contracts directly to the beltway. Thats what "no blood for oil" stories are usually about. Schlumberger might be a european company (ok, now incorperated in curacau) to consider in that light. Massive generalisations are the root topic here. Somebody said "why can't europe do what america does" and the answer is "USA is number 1" is not really a helpful conversation, its silly. Europe doesn't "envy" the US, its competing. Sometimes things like GDPR serve multiple purposes. btw to be fair, Thyssen Krupp has a pretty dirty past too. The Thyssen museum in Spain is a bit of whitewashing on a company which was in the "schindlers list" bad set, and Krupp had assets siezed for reparations in the wars in Europe so if I am a bit nasty about Halliburton or Bechtel its not like there isn't a lot of dirt to fling around. Packard Merlin engines were Rolls-Royce exports. Rolls-Royce jet engines powered the world and were being made under licence in the USA, as part of the magic box export in WWII which got radar and the proximity fuze into the war from the USA side. Penicillin production depended on US smart but UK science did the basic work. DNA was Crick and Watson in a context of UK funded science research and Rosemary Franklin got robbed of the Nobel. Du Pont was founded by a frenchman with French capital...
    - Chlorus 8y ago
      Listen, I just want to know what machinery someone makes that could possibly last centuries. This was engineering curiosity. Hundreds of billions were spent to develop nuclear reactors & spacecraft, and you're lucky if you make it 50 years on any of that, under ideal operating conditions. None of that text answers that. > Halliburton and Bechtel do amazing things, but they also >do a bunch of things I personally think are significantly less amazing, like grab serious asset and business from the post iraq war teardown, where the US forces basically said "fuck you" to european companies and awarded contracts directly to the beltway. Wait, you think it's less than amazing that Halliburton & Bechtel profited from the war and didn't give a chance to the Europeans to also profit off the war? This is a new one.
skookumchuck 8y ago
> What is this uniquely German tech that lasts centuries? Beats me. I've owned a Mercedes in the past and it was a piece of junk. Things constantly breaking on it, the lamps were always burning out, it'd burn oil prematurely. The service dept at the dealership was always happy to see me, as another $$$$ ka-ching repair. Never again.
- ggm 8y ago
  Mercedes builds wagons in a factory which used to be Carl Borgward. Nobody knows that car firm, it died in the sixties but if you say "Borg-Warner" then you're talking the basic automatic clutch which is in every american car until CVT came along. Maybe Mercedes builds lemons, but do you really think Ford never had a lemon? Whats Ralph Nader on about again? Edsel?

exar0815 8y ago

Look on every factory floor. Look in manufactory, look in specialzed machinery. For example: Kuka, Rexroth, Festo, Liebherr, DMG Mori, Bosch, Siemens, Zeiss, Dräger, Infineon, Thyssen Krupp, Aixtron, Osram, Rheinmetall, MTU. No average customer buys anything from them. They dont build the next big thing "Webapp", the next consumer electronics hype or something you use daily. Because its completely B2B. There is no german Facebook or Google or Apple, because Innovation and High Tech happens in the "Mittelstand". You wont ever hear of any of those enterprises, because you aren't their target audience.

ggm 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelstand Craft style apprenticeship, long lived enterprises with quality focus. Germany is also an economy where university education remains substantively free (to the student) and a course is not structured towards a 2-3 year "get 'm out and move on" model. People can stay in study for quite a lot longer until they are "ready" although I suspect economic pressures might be changing that. (I didn't study there: this is what German people I know tell me about tertiary education in Germany)
Chlorus 8y ago
I'm familiar with those firms, but I wouldn't call them Mittelstand enterprises, unless we're calling Siemens and Thyssen Krupp small-to-medium sized. What do they make that lasts centuries that say, General Electric(such as it was) or Halliburton / Bechtel et al don't make? I guess what I'm getting at is that massive generalizations really aren't helpful.
- ggm 8y ago
  I certainly wouldn't put siemens in mittelstand. But I would put them as worldwide competitive in a range of engineering spaces. You don't buy the story? fair enough. GE trades worldwide, has local affiliates in Europe. They work in the same way inside the european union, but expatriate profit to the US. Halliburton and Bechtel do amazing things, but they also do a bunch of things I personally think are significantly less amazing, like grab serious asset and business from the post iraq war teardown, where the US forces basically said "fuck you" to european companies and awarded contracts directly to the beltway. Thats what "no blood for oil" stories are usually about. Schlumberger might be a european company (ok, now incorperated in curacau) to consider in that light. Massive generalisations are the root topic here. Somebody said "why can't europe do what america does" and the answer is "USA is number 1" is not really a helpful conversation, its silly. Europe doesn't "envy" the US, its competing. Sometimes things like GDPR serve multiple purposes. btw to be fair, Thyssen Krupp has a pretty dirty past too. The Thyssen museum in Spain is a bit of whitewashing on a company which was in the "schindlers list" bad set, and Krupp had assets siezed for reparations in the wars in Europe so if I am a bit nasty about Halliburton or Bechtel its not like there isn't a lot of dirt to fling around. Packard Merlin engines were Rolls-Royce exports. Rolls-Royce jet engines powered the world and were being made under licence in the USA, as part of the magic box export in WWII which got radar and the proximity fuze into the war from the USA side. Penicillin production depended on US smart but UK science did the basic work. DNA was Crick and Watson in a context of UK funded science research and Rosemary Franklin got robbed of the Nobel. Du Pont was founded by a frenchman with French capital...
  - Chlorus 8y ago
    Listen, I just want to know what machinery someone makes that could possibly last centuries. This was engineering curiosity. Hundreds of billions were spent to develop nuclear reactors & spacecraft, and you're lucky if you make it 50 years on any of that, under ideal operating conditions. None of that text answers that. > Halliburton and Bechtel do amazing things, but they also >do a bunch of things I personally think are significantly less amazing, like grab serious asset and business from the post iraq war teardown, where the US forces basically said "fuck you" to european companies and awarded contracts directly to the beltway. Wait, you think it's less than amazing that Halliburton & Bechtel profited from the war and didn't give a chance to the Europeans to also profit off the war? This is a new one.

skookumchuck 8y ago

> What is this uniquely German tech that lasts centuries? Beats me. I've owned a Mercedes in the past and it was a piece of junk. Things constantly breaking on it, the lamps were always burning out, it'd burn oil prematurely. The service dept at the dealership was always happy to see me, as another $$$$ ka-ching repair. Never again.

ggm 8y ago
Mercedes builds wagons in a factory which used to be Carl Borgward. Nobody knows that car firm, it died in the sixties but if you say "Borg-Warner" then you're talking the basic automatic clutch which is in every american car until CVT came along. Maybe Mercedes builds lemons, but do you really think Ford never had a lemon? Whats Ralph Nader on about again? Edsel?