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> For better or worse, I think we can all agree that only ever saying "him"/"he" or "she"/"her" is currently considered unacceptable (for better or worse) in En

> For better or worse, I think we can all agree that only ever saying "him"/"he" or "she"/"her" is currently considered unacceptable (for better or worse) in English-speaking companies. Hi, I'm the person who wrote the (apparently offending) comment. I am sensitive to and aware of these issues. However, using they/them is not necessarily an obvious slam dunk in these contexts either, as that's technically not grammatically correct when used in the singular. There are those who argue that the singular they is useful enough in our modern gender-fluid context that we should just start using it and let the grammar rules catch up when they will, but this is definitely not a settled currently-considered-the-only-acceptable-choice-everywhere kind of thing. Grammarly tackled this question on their blog last year (here: https://www.grammarly.com/blog/use-the-singular-they/ https://www.grammarly.com/blog/use-the-singular-they/), and while I think that piece makes some good arguments, note that it approaches the subject as "while non-standard, this is a good thing that people should be doing anyway" rather than "everyone knows this is the only way to approach this." Similarly, Merriam-Webster (see: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/singular-nonbinary-they https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/singular-nonbi...) judges this a matter of still-evolving usage rather than long-settled grammatical law. The last thing I wanted to be when I grew up is a grammatical pedant, so please don't take this as an invitation to a war over which usage is the right one. I can see merit in both arguments (though I tend to think the singular they will eventually reach consensus acceptance, just because it's so useful). I just mention it to illustrate that it's not necessarily the case that failure to reach for the singular they automatically marks a writer out as oblivious or sexist.

mattlondon 8y ago
Thanks - if you're not comfortable using "they" yet, then you might want to consider something like "he/she" and "her/him" rather than excluding a single gender entirely by only ever using one gender. That will go a long way to addressing the inequality (but obviously this ignores non-binaries) Thanks for engaging either way. We need to challenge sexism (either implicit or explicit) in our industry.
- smacktoward 8y ago
  Why do you assume from a single comment that I "only ever us[e] one gender"? If I were a writer who is sensitive to these issues, and who tries to address them by taking care to mix up using he/his and she/hers when writing, would it not be the case that you might see one comment from me using he/his and then another one later using she/hers? (And note that for some singular-they advocates "he/she" and "her/him" aren't really any better either, as they omit trans folk and other non-binary people as much as using "he" in one place and "she" in the next does.) This is a place where the language is rapidly evolving, is all I'm saying, and therefore maybe we should lean towards reading people charitably until such time as a consensus has been reached.
- detaro 8y ago
  IMHO you're really overreacting here. It's not unusual or bad style to pick a random set of pronouns for a specific imagined person in such a few sentences of scenario.
  - mattlondon 8y ago
    It is a sackable-offense where I am; using He/Him and She/Her is absolutely forbidden. I don't agree with sacking people over this but we 100% absolutely need to confront sexism (in every direction, and implicit & explicit) in our industry.
    - zzzcpan 8y ago
      Using he/him/she/her has absolutely nothing to do with sexism. It doesn't sound like you are in a healthy environment if you can get sacked for that. We don't need that in our industry.
    - laumars 8y ago
      I notice you're a fellow Londoner, so here's my take on your comment from the perspective of someone who is a hiring manager and thus has had the displeasure of dismissing staff: Even if that is a sackable offence where you work (which I'm highly sceptical about), that would still be breaking UK employment laws and thus the terminated employee would have grounds for unfair dismissal. This is even taking into account how sensitive to discrimination our employment laws are. Usually what happens when employees are fired over seemingly trivial things, they already have a string of misnomers on file and really the trivial occurrence is the "final strike" (to use a baseball metaphor).

mattlondon 8y ago

Thanks - if you're not comfortable using "they" yet, then you might want to consider something like "he/she" and "her/him" rather than excluding a single gender entirely by only ever using one gender. That will go a long way to addressing the inequality (but obviously this ignores non-binaries) Thanks for engaging either way. We need to challenge sexism (either implicit or explicit) in our industry.

smacktoward 8y ago
Why do you assume from a single comment that I "only ever us[e] one gender"? If I were a writer who is sensitive to these issues, and who tries to address them by taking care to mix up using he/his and she/hers when writing, would it not be the case that you might see one comment from me using he/his and then another one later using she/hers? (And note that for some singular-they advocates "he/she" and "her/him" aren't really any better either, as they omit trans folk and other non-binary people as much as using "he" in one place and "she" in the next does.) This is a place where the language is rapidly evolving, is all I'm saying, and therefore maybe we should lean towards reading people charitably until such time as a consensus has been reached.
detaro 8y ago
IMHO you're really overreacting here. It's not unusual or bad style to pick a random set of pronouns for a specific imagined person in such a few sentences of scenario.
- mattlondon 8y ago
  It is a sackable-offense where I am; using He/Him and She/Her is absolutely forbidden. I don't agree with sacking people over this but we 100% absolutely need to confront sexism (in every direction, and implicit & explicit) in our industry.
  - zzzcpan 8y ago
    Using he/him/she/her has absolutely nothing to do with sexism. It doesn't sound like you are in a healthy environment if you can get sacked for that. We don't need that in our industry.
  - laumars 8y ago
    I notice you're a fellow Londoner, so here's my take on your comment from the perspective of someone who is a hiring manager and thus has had the displeasure of dismissing staff: Even if that is a sackable offence where you work (which I'm highly sceptical about), that would still be breaking UK employment laws and thus the terminated employee would have grounds for unfair dismissal. This is even taking into account how sensitive to discrimination our employment laws are. Usually what happens when employees are fired over seemingly trivial things, they already have a string of misnomers on file and really the trivial occurrence is the "final strike" (to use a baseball metaphor).