6 ms·

'Fuck ethics. Money is everything' FB employees react to scandal on gossip app

96 points by Sonnol53 8y ago

devereaux 8y ago
At least the headline is 100% honest. I'd rather have the company tell me that it's all about the baseline than pretending it cares.
- drugme 8y ago
  So it's OK to blatantly screw people over as long as you're "honest about it"?
  - as300 8y ago
    No, but it's worse to do so while you say you're "making the world a better place"
    - robertrobot 8y ago
      Being honest about malicious intentions does not vindicate your actions.
      - CyberDildonics 8y ago
        No one said that it does, you are misrepresenting what you are replying to.
        drugme 8y ago
        Actually that's pretty much the way the original comment (4 levels above yours) reads: "I'd rather have the company tell me it's all about the baseline (i.e. screw people over) and be honest about it -- than pretend that it cares"
        CyberDildonics 8y ago
        That doesn't say anything about absolving bad behavior with honesty, only that deception and bad behavior is worse than bad behavior alone.
  - Viker 8y ago
    Well yes. That is one of the pillars of capitalism. You can sell whatever you want as long as the description on the packages is "honest".
drugme 8y ago
"Morale is super high," reads the post from a self-described engineer. "We are paid a ton. Looking forward to my yearly bonus of $100k. Fuck ethics. Money is everything." Sounds like Mark has done an excellent job of cloning his younger self.
- akhilcacharya 8y ago
  I’m pretty sure they reduced their yearly bonus percentage multiplier for the year (iirc, it’s under 1.0) so I’m genuinely wondering what the OPs base is.
  - romanovcode 8y ago
    Are you sure? Wouldn't they keep it up to retain the people after the scandals.
    - akhilcacharya 8y ago
      They did some belt tightening last year - they reduced their base intern conversion bonus by $10k to $65k. I'm also not convinced the scandals actually convince anybody to leave.
- busterarm 8y ago
  I know someone who had this exact attitude while they worked at Instagram until a few months ago. That's when they left the company and started bashing Facebook's practices.
  - romanovcode 8y ago
    Communist until you get rich. Atheist until plane starts falling down.
    - ionised 8y ago
      That's only true for people who had shaky principles and no integrity in the first place.
yingw787 8y ago
Good time to post one of Paul Graham's essays: http://www.paulgraham.com/mean.html http://www.paulgraham.com/mean.html Most startups have the problem of accelerating into the ground. Facebook has the problem of accelerating into the ceiling. What do you do when you capture the social networking market, and investors still expect the same growth rates as before? Maybe founders should worry about the "What if I win?" question in addition to the oft-thought "What if I lose?" question. Taking over the world shouldn't be the only exit condition; plenty of companies should aim to be happy at some level below that.
- minikites 8y ago
  If we're going by the capitalist definition of success where "more money = better than" (a reasonable assumption given Paul's occupation) then his essay doesn't pass the laugh test. https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/study-rich-more-likely-to-take-candy-from-babies/2011/08/25/gIQAXE0beR_blog.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/study-r... >The “upper class,” as defined by the study, were more likely to break the law while driving, take candy from children, lie in negotiation, cheat to increase their odds of winning a prize and endorse unethical behavior at work, researchers reported today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
- rgbrenner 8y ago
  Facebook's net income is larger than Google's (15b vs 12b for 2017, respectively). If investors are expecting such high growth rates, it's because Zuckerberg refuses to set more reasonable expectations.
i_am_nomad 8y ago
The more important news here is, there are Facebook engineers who still post to Blind, despite their recent leak and awful security.
askafriend 8y ago
That app is known for casual unchecked trolling. It's the 4Chan of tech despite employer email verification. Mashable is trying to make it more than what it is for easy clicks. I read the exact thread where the employee posted that comment. The follow up comment posted by the same employee was this: "Yup! That's the sign on a loser. Look at my paycheck at FB! That all I have and I am proud of it. Fuck ethics and morality. We FBers love to brag about our paycheck size!" You decide for yourself if that sounds like someone who's being serious. Also keep in mind that employee headcount at FB is well over 35,000 globally. People will be people. Sense of humor varies wildly in a population that large. Again, it's pretty shitty low-class trolling, but trolling nonetheless in my opinion.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- romanovcode 8y ago
  I think you are under an assumption that people are decent. You'd be surprised how many people are assholes if they know that they can get away with it. I have no doubt that this person is working at FB, because why wouldn't he be?
  - nailer 8y ago
    Nobody is saying the poster isn't working at FB. They're saying the poster is being sarcastic, because the poster clearly is.
- minikites 8y ago
  >That app is known for casual unchecked trolling. This is not a very convincing argument. You are who you pretend to be. A large part of what it means to _be_ a nice/mean person is _acting_ like a nice/mean person.
  - beaconstudios 8y ago
    while that's generally true (I'm a big believer in the idea that belief is action), trolling is clearly a case where people break away from their usual behaviour. Though in this case it reads to me like the employee is being sarcastic in the face of accusations that FB employees are knowingly and cynically engaging in unethical behaviour. Not that I know for sure, intent is tricky to judge especially over a text medium.
tmp092 8y ago
FWIW I became $500k richer this year and my happiness has not changed a bit. Same highish functioning depression. But purely see money as something that gives you options to do more things, not as something that allows me to buy a yacht, car, or McMansion. But I suffer from the paradox of choice and get anxious over feeling like I'm not making the right choices.
- akhilcacharya 8y ago
  That must be a fantastic problem to have!
  - lm28469 8y ago
    Every single goal you have is just the next step on a ladder, as soon as you hit it there will be another one. You'll forget you even worked to get there, and focus on the next step, thinking "ah if only I were there, I'd be happy". It never stops, it gets increasingly harder and depressing unless you are aware of it. As far as I can tell a lot of people never understand that until very late in their life. Most people in the world are living with way less than what you have, it's just a matter of perspective. If you think material things will help you feel better you're plain wrong. As long as you have food, a roof over your head and some sort of community you're good to go.
    - celticninja 8y ago
      There is only another step if you create one for yourself. If you set yourself a goal e.g $1m in savings and I can retire, and achieve it, there is no reason not to quit and enjoy it, except for yourself
    - DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
      The book of Ecclesiastes from (what Christians call) the Old Testament focuses on this very thing. Short summary: https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/oldtestament/section12/ https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/oldtestament/section12/
    - akhilcacharya 8y ago
simonh 8y ago
The anti-ethics roadshow hit a speed bump by the looks of it. FB’s developer certificates for iOS just got revoked by Apple for violating their developer agreement.
OnlyRepliesToBS 8y ago
ppl liked the unchecked greed before it turned

96 points by Sonnol53 8y ago

At least the headline is 100% honest. I'd rather have the company tell me that it's all about the baseline than pretending it cares.

drugme 8y ago
So it's OK to blatantly screw people over as long as you're "honest about it"?
- as300 8y ago
  No, but it's worse to do so while you say you're "making the world a better place"
  - robertrobot 8y ago
    Being honest about malicious intentions does not vindicate your actions.
    - CyberDildonics 8y ago
      No one said that it does, you are misrepresenting what you are replying to.
      - drugme 8y ago
        Actually that's pretty much the way the original comment (4 levels above yours) reads: "I'd rather have the company tell me it's all about the baseline (i.e. screw people over) and be honest about it -- than pretend that it cares"
        CyberDildonics 8y ago
        That doesn't say anything about absolving bad behavior with honesty, only that deception and bad behavior is worse than bad behavior alone.
- Viker 8y ago
  Well yes. That is one of the pillars of capitalism. You can sell whatever you want as long as the description on the packages is "honest".

drugme 8y ago

"Morale is super high," reads the post from a self-described engineer. "We are paid a ton. Looking forward to my yearly bonus of $100k. Fuck ethics. Money is everything." Sounds like Mark has done an excellent job of cloning his younger self.

akhilcacharya 8y ago
I’m pretty sure they reduced their yearly bonus percentage multiplier for the year (iirc, it’s under 1.0) so I’m genuinely wondering what the OPs base is.
- romanovcode 8y ago
  Are you sure? Wouldn't they keep it up to retain the people after the scandals.
  - akhilcacharya 8y ago
    They did some belt tightening last year - they reduced their base intern conversion bonus by $10k to $65k. I'm also not convinced the scandals actually convince anybody to leave.
busterarm 8y ago
I know someone who had this exact attitude while they worked at Instagram until a few months ago. That's when they left the company and started bashing Facebook's practices.
- romanovcode 8y ago
  Communist until you get rich. Atheist until plane starts falling down.
  - ionised 8y ago
    That's only true for people who had shaky principles and no integrity in the first place.

yingw787 8y ago

Good time to post one of Paul Graham's essays: http://www.paulgraham.com/mean.html http://www.paulgraham.com/mean.html Most startups have the problem of accelerating into the ground. Facebook has the problem of accelerating into the ceiling. What do you do when you capture the social networking market, and investors still expect the same growth rates as before? Maybe founders should worry about the "What if I win?" question in addition to the oft-thought "What if I lose?" question. Taking over the world shouldn't be the only exit condition; plenty of companies should aim to be happy at some level below that.

minikites 8y ago
If we're going by the capitalist definition of success where "more money = better than" (a reasonable assumption given Paul's occupation) then his essay doesn't pass the laugh test. https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/study-rich-more-likely-to-take-candy-from-babies/2011/08/25/gIQAXE0beR_blog.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/study-r... >The “upper class,” as defined by the study, were more likely to break the law while driving, take candy from children, lie in negotiation, cheat to increase their odds of winning a prize and endorse unethical behavior at work, researchers reported today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
rgbrenner 8y ago
Facebook's net income is larger than Google's (15b vs 12b for 2017, respectively). If investors are expecting such high growth rates, it's because Zuckerberg refuses to set more reasonable expectations.

i_am_nomad 8y ago

The more important news here is, there are Facebook engineers who still post to Blind, despite their recent leak and awful security.

askafriend 8y ago

That app is known for casual unchecked trolling. It's the 4Chan of tech despite employer email verification. Mashable is trying to make it more than what it is for easy clicks. I read the exact thread where the employee posted that comment. The follow up comment posted by the same employee was this: "Yup! That's the sign on a loser. Look at my paycheck at FB! That all I have and I am proud of it. Fuck ethics and morality. We FBers love to brag about our paycheck size!" You decide for yourself if that sounds like someone who's being serious. Also keep in mind that employee headcount at FB is well over 35,000 globally. People will be people. Sense of humor varies wildly in a population that large. Again, it's pretty shitty low-class trolling, but trolling nonetheless in my opinion.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
romanovcode 8y ago
I think you are under an assumption that people are decent. You'd be surprised how many people are assholes if they know that they can get away with it. I have no doubt that this person is working at FB, because why wouldn't he be?
- nailer 8y ago
  Nobody is saying the poster isn't working at FB. They're saying the poster is being sarcastic, because the poster clearly is.
minikites 8y ago
>That app is known for casual unchecked trolling. This is not a very convincing argument. You are who you pretend to be. A large part of what it means to _be_ a nice/mean person is _acting_ like a nice/mean person.
- beaconstudios 8y ago
  while that's generally true (I'm a big believer in the idea that belief is action), trolling is clearly a case where people break away from their usual behaviour. Though in this case it reads to me like the employee is being sarcastic in the face of accusations that FB employees are knowingly and cynically engaging in unethical behaviour. Not that I know for sure, intent is tricky to judge especially over a text medium.

tmp092 8y ago

FWIW I became $500k richer this year and my happiness has not changed a bit. Same highish functioning depression. But purely see money as something that gives you options to do more things, not as something that allows me to buy a yacht, car, or McMansion. But I suffer from the paradox of choice and get anxious over feeling like I'm not making the right choices.

akhilcacharya 8y ago
That must be a fantastic problem to have!
- lm28469 8y ago
  Every single goal you have is just the next step on a ladder, as soon as you hit it there will be another one. You'll forget you even worked to get there, and focus on the next step, thinking "ah if only I were there, I'd be happy". It never stops, it gets increasingly harder and depressing unless you are aware of it. As far as I can tell a lot of people never understand that until very late in their life. Most people in the world are living with way less than what you have, it's just a matter of perspective. If you think material things will help you feel better you're plain wrong. As long as you have food, a roof over your head and some sort of community you're good to go.
  - celticninja 8y ago
    There is only another step if you create one for yourself. If you set yourself a goal e.g $1m in savings and I can retire, and achieve it, there is no reason not to quit and enjoy it, except for yourself
  - DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
    The book of Ecclesiastes from (what Christians call) the Old Testament focuses on this very thing. Short summary: https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/oldtestament/section12/ https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/oldtestament/section12/
  - akhilcacharya 8y ago

simonh 8y ago

The anti-ethics roadshow hit a speed bump by the looks of it. FB’s developer certificates for iOS just got revoked by Apple for violating their developer agreement.

OnlyRepliesToBS 8y ago

ppl liked the unchecked greed before it turned