3 ms·

We should establish and recognize as a concept OPM, observations-per-minute. That's what the AI is doing in excess of what the human can, observing the game st

by T-hawk 8y ago

We should establish and recognize as a concept OPM, observations-per-minute. That's what the AI is doing in excess of what the human can, observing the game state faster, even if acting at the same APM.

dragontamer 8y ago
APM Accuracy as a concept also needs to be revisited. A human who misclicks a "move" action, will quickly issue a 2nd or 3rd move to move the unit to the correct location. All together, it will count as 5 actions (1-action to click on a unit. 4-actions to move the unit around, because 3 of them were a mistake). This is seen with the 800 APM that TLO played with. He has a lot of spurious clicks and button clicks. The units are controlled well, but a lot of his actions are redundant. (There's no penalty for redundant actions, so why not??) A computer will not misclick. In fact, the AI doesn't even have a mouse: it can accurately click any location on the screen it wants without moving a cursor. Therefore, a computer will have 300-"perfect" APM (no misclicks involved), while a human will have more and more misclicks as their APM goes higher. --------- I dunno, I think going for Starcraft was a fundamental mistake. A huge amount of Starcraft practice is just moving the mouse around and developing finger-dexterity to support 100+ APM (at my level of Starcraft anyway. I never really got over 150 APM even at my best). The dexterity of your wrists and fingers play a huge part in the game. Any game where dexterity, reaction speed, and so forth are an element, computers will likely dominate.
- ALittleLight 8y ago
  There is the concert of effective actions per minute or eapm. Presumably AlphaStar has a high eapm to apm ratio. https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/Actions_per_Minute#APM_vs._eAPM https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/Actions_per_Minute#APM_vs._...
- cwkoss 8y ago
  It would be interesting if they made the AI harness add noise to the click position signal based on how long it has been since the last click. Ex. up to 5 perfectly targeted ClkPS, or up to 10 with 10px accuracy, or up to 15 with 30px accuracy

by T-hawk 8y ago

dragontamer 8y ago

APM Accuracy as a concept also needs to be revisited. A human who misclicks a "move" action, will quickly issue a 2nd or 3rd move to move the unit to the correct location. All together, it will count as 5 actions (1-action to click on a unit. 4-actions to move the unit around, because 3 of them were a mistake). This is seen with the 800 APM that TLO played with. He has a lot of spurious clicks and button clicks. The units are controlled well, but a lot of his actions are redundant. (There's no penalty for redundant actions, so why not??) A computer will not misclick. In fact, the AI doesn't even have a mouse: it can accurately click any location on the screen it wants without moving a cursor. Therefore, a computer will have 300-"perfect" APM (no misclicks involved), while a human will have more and more misclicks as their APM goes higher. --------- I dunno, I think going for Starcraft was a fundamental mistake. A huge amount of Starcraft practice is just moving the mouse around and developing finger-dexterity to support 100+ APM (at my level of Starcraft anyway. I never really got over 150 APM even at my best). The dexterity of your wrists and fingers play a huge part in the game. Any game where dexterity, reaction speed, and so forth are an element, computers will likely dominate.

ALittleLight 8y ago
There is the concert of effective actions per minute or eapm. Presumably AlphaStar has a high eapm to apm ratio. https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/Actions_per_Minute#APM_vs._eAPM https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/Actions_per_Minute#APM_vs._...
cwkoss 8y ago
It would be interesting if they made the AI harness add noise to the click position signal based on how long it has been since the last click. Ex. up to 5 perfectly targeted ClkPS, or up to 10 with 10px accuracy, or up to 15 with 30px accuracy