4 ms·

Strange article. Why give Watson, who most people forgot about anyway, publicity in this way? Seems to me that this kind of articles fuels racism by introducing

by x3tm 8y ago

Strange article. Why give Watson, who most people forgot about anyway, publicity in this way? Seems to me that this kind of articles fuels racism by introducing bigots to a great bigot they can look up to, more than it actually fights racism. The fact that it mixes emotions, ideology, and science in the same pot is also problematic. Then comes the "Black scientists are" part. This is a ridiculous and dangerous construction. Again it fuels racism more than it fights it. What's special about black scientists? Nothing. If we don't see race. A better phrasing is to express culture/feeling/history "Black people are"

beat 8y ago
"I don't see race" is a luxury for those who aren't seen by their race. Two days ago, a well-known black actor was attacked in Chicago. His attackers put a noose around his neck and poured bleach on him, while shouting racist and homophobic slurs. Do you think he gets to "not see race"? What's special about black scientists? It's in the article. Until recently, they didn't exist, by and large. They weren't granted the opportunity, talent be damned. So there's a relevance to their experience, whether it makes you feel good or not.
- x3tm 8y ago
  My comment was that I dont see race _when it comes to science_. Science is not influenced by race. Race is not relevant for scientific discussions. I was criticizing the fact that the mixing between race and science is bad at best. Wherever it comes from. Im certainly not denying the existence of racism, and I also don't need anecdotes to know that.
  - beat 8y ago
    Ok. I brought it up because "I don't see race" is a popular rebuttal to any attempt to discuss racism - as if sticking our heads in the sand will protect us from predators. I'm sure you've seen this, too. So when I see it, there's some reflex involved. Science itself is, of course, not influenced by the race of the scientist. However, racism has been rationalized by "science" for centuries, which is what Watson was doing. That's what the article is about. I kind of wish the author had reached back to debunked nonsense like phrenology to show the history of how "scientific racism" works, but it is what it is. I thought the author's point that using exceptionalism to reinforce "scientific racism" was really interesting and important. I think there's a lot of valuable ground to discover if we analyze racism itself through the lens of science, to figure out why so many people will make irrational excuses to justify a morally repugnant belief system.
    - x3tm 8y ago
      >Ok. I brought it up because "I don't see race" is a popular rebuttal to any attempt to discuss racism Yes, I got the good intention behind your message. No worries. > I think there's a lot of valuable ground to discover if we analyze racism itself through the lens of science, to figure out why so many people will make irrational excuses to justify a morally repugnant belief system. Of course. But black scientists are not better suited to do that. Not more than Asians or Arabs for instance. That's the core of my comment. Science is just a method.
- mondo9000 8y ago
  That's what happened according to TMZ... I'll be surprised if 5% of the story is true.
  - beat 8y ago
    Oh, and he wound up in the hospital with a broken rib. Maybe he broke his own rib. Chicago PD is investigating it as a hate crime. Maybe they're in on the conspiracy. Or maybe you're imagining a lie because you can't accept that it is true.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - mondo9000 8y ago
      I'm happy they are investigating it, and I look forward to their report.
    - globlist 8y ago
      You're the one jumping to conclusions.
    - mondo9000 8y ago
      I hope you are following this case, because I sure am https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/02/12/jussie-smollett-attack-false-report/ https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/02/12/jussie-smollett-atta...
      - mondo9000 8y ago
        Of course it was a hoax because the story was so ridiculous on its face and now Smollett needs a defense attorney[1]. Not quite as outrageous as 2017 Jewish Community Center bomb threats [2] which were also blamed on "the rise of white nationalism in Trump's America." yet serving the same political purpose: demonizing republicans, conservatives, whites and unifying groups on the left as they feel they are under attack. 1) https://news.grabien.com/story-cnn-chicago-police-sources-say-smollett-appears-have-orchest https://news.grabien.com/story-cnn-chicago-police-sources-sa... 2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Jewish_Community_Center_bomb_threats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Jewish_Community_Center_b...

by x3tm 8y ago

beat 8y ago

"I don't see race" is a luxury for those who aren't seen by their race. Two days ago, a well-known black actor was attacked in Chicago. His attackers put a noose around his neck and poured bleach on him, while shouting racist and homophobic slurs. Do you think he gets to "not see race"? What's special about black scientists? It's in the article. Until recently, they didn't exist, by and large. They weren't granted the opportunity, talent be damned. So there's a relevance to their experience, whether it makes you feel good or not.

x3tm 8y ago
My comment was that I dont see race _when it comes to science_. Science is not influenced by race. Race is not relevant for scientific discussions. I was criticizing the fact that the mixing between race and science is bad at best. Wherever it comes from. Im certainly not denying the existence of racism, and I also don't need anecdotes to know that.
- beat 8y ago
  Ok. I brought it up because "I don't see race" is a popular rebuttal to any attempt to discuss racism - as if sticking our heads in the sand will protect us from predators. I'm sure you've seen this, too. So when I see it, there's some reflex involved. Science itself is, of course, not influenced by the race of the scientist. However, racism has been rationalized by "science" for centuries, which is what Watson was doing. That's what the article is about. I kind of wish the author had reached back to debunked nonsense like phrenology to show the history of how "scientific racism" works, but it is what it is. I thought the author's point that using exceptionalism to reinforce "scientific racism" was really interesting and important. I think there's a lot of valuable ground to discover if we analyze racism itself through the lens of science, to figure out why so many people will make irrational excuses to justify a morally repugnant belief system.
  - x3tm 8y ago
    >Ok. I brought it up because "I don't see race" is a popular rebuttal to any attempt to discuss racism Yes, I got the good intention behind your message. No worries. > I think there's a lot of valuable ground to discover if we analyze racism itself through the lens of science, to figure out why so many people will make irrational excuses to justify a morally repugnant belief system. Of course. But black scientists are not better suited to do that. Not more than Asians or Arabs for instance. That's the core of my comment. Science is just a method.
mondo9000 8y ago
That's what happened according to TMZ... I'll be surprised if 5% of the story is true.
- beat 8y ago
  Oh, and he wound up in the hospital with a broken rib. Maybe he broke his own rib. Chicago PD is investigating it as a hate crime. Maybe they're in on the conspiracy. Or maybe you're imagining a lie because you can't accept that it is true.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - mondo9000 8y ago
    I'm happy they are investigating it, and I look forward to their report.
  - globlist 8y ago
    You're the one jumping to conclusions.
  - mondo9000 8y ago
    I hope you are following this case, because I sure am https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/02/12/jussie-smollett-attack-false-report/ https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/02/12/jussie-smollett-atta...
    - mondo9000 8y ago
      Of course it was a hoax because the story was so ridiculous on its face and now Smollett needs a defense attorney[1]. Not quite as outrageous as 2017 Jewish Community Center bomb threats [2] which were also blamed on "the rise of white nationalism in Trump's America." yet serving the same political purpose: demonizing republicans, conservatives, whites and unifying groups on the left as they feel they are under attack. 1) https://news.grabien.com/story-cnn-chicago-police-sources-say-smollett-appears-have-orchest https://news.grabien.com/story-cnn-chicago-police-sources-sa... 2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Jewish_Community_Center_bomb_threats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Jewish_Community_Center_b...