6 ms·

Everybody is essential, none is sufficient... (and craigslist has a design, it's just a different kind)

by Neputys 16y ago

jeromec 16y ago
(and craigslist has a design, it's just a different kind) Yes, I agree craigslist has a design. It's a functional design, the kind I'm great at. What I'm not so good at is art/graphic design. I could have built craigslist from scratch completely by myself in a few weeks, if that long, but that's because I can lay things out and use shades of gray quite well.
- Neputys 16y ago
  I really believe you could... but the thing is - would you decide to keep it this way as they did? Really.. think about it. Wouldn't you think let's hire a "designer" to make it nicer now that we have more money (same here)? For me this is the actual kind of smart design decision and not ability to make sleek glossy buttons. I don't want to have an argument. I'm just sharing my view on what I think good design actually is.
  - jeromec 16y ago
    Well, that's a good question, but it depends on whether you mean a graphic designer or a "user experience" person. A graphic designer can make most any site look nicer, but that doesn't mean the same thing as providing them with a better usage experience. For example, does the position/availability of search boxes make sense. I'm not trying to argue, either. This is an interesting topic for me. Where the purely technical/engineering world merges with the artistic world there is often interesting overlap. Is it better to have form over function, or function over form? I think the answer is that it depends case by case on the desired result, and both areas often compromise to accommodate the other. So, for example, "concept cars" usually have exotic form, and look great, but they are usually hypothetical only because in reality they wouldn't be that great functionally -- they're usually purely artistic.
    - Neputys 16y ago
      No matter what the title is the thing that makes a world of difference is the reason someone designs. Nice looks are useless if they have no clear purpose, if there's no underlying reason for them to be nice. The value of really good designer is in the ability to understand what kind of design and how much of it is needed in order to make something _work_ well/better as opposed to just look nice (what can be simply harmful in some cases, I call it monkey with grenade...). So I think if when you say designer you mean someone who has ability to understand bigger picture and uses his skills as a tool to achieve something, you definitely need one (and you'll have a hard time finding him). But if it's just about looks then I'm not sure. btw, design is not art, design is an industrial term believe it or not. Child of mass production in 19th century:)
      - jeromec 16y ago
        Hmm, good thoughts. I think you and I are thinking pretty much the same. Design is not art? Hmm... I think Leonardo da Vinci would possibly disagree with that. But maybe you're saying "design" is more mathematical in nature -- something either fits and works, or it doesn't. I could see that. Are graphic designers not usually artists? Or maybe you're saying the term should be "graphic artists" and not "graphic designers"? btw, I lol'ed at monkey with grenade :)
        Neputys 16y ago
        I think original and real meaning of term "design" is somehow lost to many people. It was coined for a reason long long after term art existed. The reason was that it was a process of creating something with aesthetic value but for business/utilitarian purpose and within certain constrains. Things like market, engineering, mass production requirements and so on. And designer is someone who has to understand these things in order to do his job well as opposed to artist who can make a car with a huge butterfly wings on it and it can still be a masterpiece as an artwork thou he has no idea what people want, how engineers work and it's absurd as a new model...

Everybody is essential, none is sufficient... (and craigslist has a design, it's just a different kind)

by Neputys 16y ago

Everybody is essential, none is sufficient... (and craigslist has a design, it's just a different kind)

(and craigslist has a design, it's just a different kind) Yes, I agree craigslist has a design. It's a functional design, the kind I'm great at. What I'm not so good at is art/graphic design. I could have built craigslist from scratch completely by myself in a few weeks, if that long, but that's because I can lay things out and use shades of gray quite well.

Neputys 16y ago
I really believe you could... but the thing is - would you decide to keep it this way as they did? Really.. think about it. Wouldn't you think let's hire a "designer" to make it nicer now that we have more money (same here)? For me this is the actual kind of smart design decision and not ability to make sleek glossy buttons. I don't want to have an argument. I'm just sharing my view on what I think good design actually is.
- jeromec 16y ago
  Well, that's a good question, but it depends on whether you mean a graphic designer or a "user experience" person. A graphic designer can make most any site look nicer, but that doesn't mean the same thing as providing them with a better usage experience. For example, does the position/availability of search boxes make sense. I'm not trying to argue, either. This is an interesting topic for me. Where the purely technical/engineering world merges with the artistic world there is often interesting overlap. Is it better to have form over function, or function over form? I think the answer is that it depends case by case on the desired result, and both areas often compromise to accommodate the other. So, for example, "concept cars" usually have exotic form, and look great, but they are usually hypothetical only because in reality they wouldn't be that great functionally -- they're usually purely artistic.
  - Neputys 16y ago
    No matter what the title is the thing that makes a world of difference is the reason someone designs. Nice looks are useless if they have no clear purpose, if there's no underlying reason for them to be nice. The value of really good designer is in the ability to understand what kind of design and how much of it is needed in order to make something _work_ well/better as opposed to just look nice (what can be simply harmful in some cases, I call it monkey with grenade...). So I think if when you say designer you mean someone who has ability to understand bigger picture and uses his skills as a tool to achieve something, you definitely need one (and you'll have a hard time finding him). But if it's just about looks then I'm not sure. btw, design is not art, design is an industrial term believe it or not. Child of mass production in 19th century:)
    - jeromec 16y ago
      Hmm, good thoughts. I think you and I are thinking pretty much the same. Design is not art? Hmm... I think Leonardo da Vinci would possibly disagree with that. But maybe you're saying "design" is more mathematical in nature -- something either fits and works, or it doesn't. I could see that. Are graphic designers not usually artists? Or maybe you're saying the term should be "graphic artists" and not "graphic designers"? btw, I lol'ed at monkey with grenade :)
      - Neputys 16y ago
        I think original and real meaning of term "design" is somehow lost to many people. It was coined for a reason long long after term art existed. The reason was that it was a process of creating something with aesthetic value but for business/utilitarian purpose and within certain constrains. Things like market, engineering, mass production requirements and so on. And designer is someone who has to understand these things in order to do his job well as opposed to artist who can make a car with a huge butterfly wings on it and it can still be a masterpiece as an artwork thou he has no idea what people want, how engineers work and it's absurd as a new model...