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What is there to be afraid of? Put it out there so it is open to criticism. Why suppress it? Think of it through the lens of emergence, or the shotgun effect..

What is there to be afraid of? Put it out there so it is open to criticism. Why suppress it? Think of it through the lens of emergence, or the shotgun effect.. The more competing, different theories that are out there, the more likely that we will get closer to the truth. This allows future researchers to draw from a larger pool of diverse thought. "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them."

munk-a 8y ago
I mean, with climate change the thing to be afraid of is that the populace remains complacent and human beings fail to address and properly respond to an existential threat.
- charliesharding 8y ago
  If their assertions fall apart under scrutiny then that is a misplaced fear because nobody will take it seriously. If not, and other researchers can back it up - then you don't have to be afraid of an existential threat! win-win Being a scientist means you have to adopt a mentality of passive observation and openness to being wrong, otherwise you'll just fall into the trap of confirmation bias which necessarily results in bad science.
  - munk-a 8y ago
    That's a wonderfully optimistic view to take, unfortunately most of the population of America doesn't subject information placed in front of them to close scrutiny, in part because we're all bombarded with some much information that we simply can't try and make expert assessments on it. Additionally, click-bait is a thing, just pushing a headline with "based on a scientific paper" out there can be dangerous - there is the old adage that a lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  I mean, with climate change the thing to be afraid of is that the populace remains complacent and human beings fail to address and properly respond to an existential threat. If you want persuasive arguments, check out potholer54's channel on YouTube. He's demolished just about the entire corpus of anti-climate change propaganda.
jhayward 8y ago
> What is there to be afraid of? Propaganda and asymmetric warfare trying to disrupt the information commons is something to be afraid of. The idealistic tropes that you are quoting are not born out in real-life experience, and we have some large eveents of the last 100 years that make us wary of people who use propaganda as warfare tactics.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  Propaganda and asymmetric warfare trying to disrupt the information commons is something to be afraid of...we have some large events of the last 100 years that make us wary of people who use propaganda as warfare tactics. In the short term, propaganda can get an entire country of people to do just about anything. In the long term, people come back to themselves and tell the charlatans to take a hike. The big danger, as borne out all across history, is to invest concentrated power in someone to take care of the problem. People like Cincinnatus are rare, and most people don't give up power once they have it. The public discourse will eventually relegate the nutters. Lose Free Speech, not just in the letter of the law, but in the spirit throughout society, and you lose the public discourse. That's not somewhere we want to go.
  - glangdale 8y ago
    Who is suggesting that the solution to this is to restrict speech? I think it's fair enough to accurately label this as a high-end disinformation campaign, and Thiel's thumb on the scale is something that should be disclosed, but I don't think anyone is calling for censorship.
    - stcredzero 8y ago
      I think it's fair enough to accurately label this as a high-end disinformation campaign That is very apt. Thiel's thumb on the scale is something that should be disclosed, but I don't think anyone is calling for censorship. Likewise, we don't want to encourage the habit of not thinking, not reading, and just going by emotional name association. To quote one of Frank Miller's more popular characters, "These of the tools of the enemy. We do not need them. We will not use them."
naasking 8y ago
> What is there to be afraid of? Put it out there so it is open to criticism. Why suppress it? Wasting time and money that would be better served publishing better science. Not sure if these articles qualify, but it's a legitimate concern.
- charliesharding 8y ago
  Better science? Better to whom? Better based off of what criteria? While I admire your bravery for supporting popular opinion, I think we could all benefit from being more open minded
  - naasking 8y ago
    Better based off of what criteria? Are you serious? There exist criteria for evaluating he robustness scientific results that we've developed over centuries. And points off for not being uncharitable and flippant. If this is the quality of discourse I can expect from you, this will be my last reply.

munk-a 8y ago

I mean, with climate change the thing to be afraid of is that the populace remains complacent and human beings fail to address and properly respond to an existential threat.

charliesharding 8y ago
If their assertions fall apart under scrutiny then that is a misplaced fear because nobody will take it seriously. If not, and other researchers can back it up - then you don't have to be afraid of an existential threat! win-win Being a scientist means you have to adopt a mentality of passive observation and openness to being wrong, otherwise you'll just fall into the trap of confirmation bias which necessarily results in bad science.
- munk-a 8y ago
  That's a wonderfully optimistic view to take, unfortunately most of the population of America doesn't subject information placed in front of them to close scrutiny, in part because we're all bombarded with some much information that we simply can't try and make expert assessments on it. Additionally, click-bait is a thing, just pushing a headline with "based on a scientific paper" out there can be dangerous - there is the old adage that a lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.
stcredzero 8y ago
I mean, with climate change the thing to be afraid of is that the populace remains complacent and human beings fail to address and properly respond to an existential threat. If you want persuasive arguments, check out potholer54's channel on YouTube. He's demolished just about the entire corpus of anti-climate change propaganda.

jhayward 8y ago

> What is there to be afraid of? Propaganda and asymmetric warfare trying to disrupt the information commons is something to be afraid of. The idealistic tropes that you are quoting are not born out in real-life experience, and we have some large eveents of the last 100 years that make us wary of people who use propaganda as warfare tactics.

stcredzero 8y ago
Propaganda and asymmetric warfare trying to disrupt the information commons is something to be afraid of...we have some large events of the last 100 years that make us wary of people who use propaganda as warfare tactics. In the short term, propaganda can get an entire country of people to do just about anything. In the long term, people come back to themselves and tell the charlatans to take a hike. The big danger, as borne out all across history, is to invest concentrated power in someone to take care of the problem. People like Cincinnatus are rare, and most people don't give up power once they have it. The public discourse will eventually relegate the nutters. Lose Free Speech, not just in the letter of the law, but in the spirit throughout society, and you lose the public discourse. That's not somewhere we want to go.
- glangdale 8y ago
  Who is suggesting that the solution to this is to restrict speech? I think it's fair enough to accurately label this as a high-end disinformation campaign, and Thiel's thumb on the scale is something that should be disclosed, but I don't think anyone is calling for censorship.
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    I think it's fair enough to accurately label this as a high-end disinformation campaign That is very apt. Thiel's thumb on the scale is something that should be disclosed, but I don't think anyone is calling for censorship. Likewise, we don't want to encourage the habit of not thinking, not reading, and just going by emotional name association. To quote one of Frank Miller's more popular characters, "These of the tools of the enemy. We do not need them. We will not use them."

naasking 8y ago

> What is there to be afraid of? Put it out there so it is open to criticism. Why suppress it? Wasting time and money that would be better served publishing better science. Not sure if these articles qualify, but it's a legitimate concern.

charliesharding 8y ago
Better science? Better to whom? Better based off of what criteria? While I admire your bravery for supporting popular opinion, I think we could all benefit from being more open minded
- naasking 8y ago
  Better based off of what criteria? Are you serious? There exist criteria for evaluating he robustness scientific results that we've developed over centuries. And points off for not being uncharitable and flippant. If this is the quality of discourse I can expect from you, this will be my last reply.