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Yes, he made a mistake, it's not HackerNews fault, it's every single mainstream media outlet out there. You'll see things like "flagging iPhone sales", "failin

Yes, he made a mistake, it's not HackerNews fault, it's every single mainstream media outlet out there. You'll see things like "flagging iPhone sales", "failing iPhone sales", "post-iPhone era", "iPhone sales slump", etc. etc. etc. You'll start to believe that.

fauigerzigerk 8y ago
You better believe that iPhone sales have fallen pretty dramatically, because that is exactly what Apple has just reported. However, what I would like to know is whether Apple has lost market share outside of China. I would also like to know whether Apple's share of mobile usage has declined. I think these questions are a lot more important to developers than quarterly financials.
- scarface74 8y ago
  Developers don’t care about market share. If they did, they would have been prioritizing Android years ago. Developers care about reaching people who are willing and able to spend money. Statistically, that is still iOS users.
  - fauigerzigerk 8y ago
    I agree that the share of spending on each platform is the most important factor for developers. But if market share declines were beginning to affect Apple's share of mobile usage, then that would be a worrying trend for iOS developers. Apple does have far wealthier customers than Android, but compensating for market share losses by moving ever further up-market would be a dangerous strategy in my view. If middle class kids are priced out of iOS, they're unlikely to come back later when they make their own money. Same for people from less wealthy countries. I do not believe that this idea of being the "aspirational product" applies to computing platforms in the same way it may apply to expensive cars. But I was just asking questions. I'm not making a claim that any of this is actually happening right now.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      I wouldn’t think that most middle class kids are buying their own phones. Either their parents are buying them or they are getting hand me downs. My son had a 2018 Moto G, he was more than happy to “upgrade” to a 2015 iPhone 6s. Mid range Android phones are nowhere near as performant as iPhones that are 3 years older. Refurbished, used iPhones are cheap. Besides, it seems to be a habit when people talk about iPhones they act as if the only iPhones that Apple sells is the maxed out $1500 iPhone XS Max. Completely ignoring the $475 iPhone 7s that will still give you better performance than most Android phones and get years of updates.
      - fauigerzigerk 8y ago
        Obviously kids are not buying their own phones, but someone is paying for them in some shape or form (hand-me-down phones are not free either). The average selling price of iPhones has gone up pretty sharply. We don't know yet if that is what's behind the drop in sales because China is such an idiosyncratic market, but I think the answer matters.
        scarface74 8y ago
        And mobile carriers like T-mobile are increasing the length of their payment plans from two to three years. Apple is also starting to push their payment plan/trade in program harder. They are all trying to do phone-as-a-Service with continuing subscription payments where you never pay off the phone. Psychologically most people only care about the monthly cost. I’m not saying that is wise. Unless my son breaks his iPhone 6s that I bought for myself in 2015 for $750, I don’t see any reason it won’t be a good phone for another two years and the rate things are going, it might still be faster than your average mid range Android phone in 2020.
    - bunnycorn 8y ago
      Apples moves don't matter. iPhones last longer and going rates for second hand ones speak volumes for themselves. Also, Apple sells more products than the top of the line XS Max, they have plenty of middle of the road models like the iPhone 7, which is still faster than any Android phone ever made. If you really care about it, why don't you talk about the regaining iPad? Are you selling Apps for themselves? iPad is the prime platform and with Photoshop coming, it will only do good. Apple says they have now 1.4 billion active devices.
- virgilp 8y ago
  > However, what I would like to know is whether Apple has lost market share outside of China. Apple has been losing market share for some time, it was relatively flat on units sold while the market was increasing. See e.g. this from a year ago: https://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2018/02/apple-results-flat-sales-vs-year-before-market-share-down-one-pointst-.html https://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2018/02/apple-... > at one point Apple did 20% of all smartphones sold. The last three years? 16%, 15% and now 14%.
  - fauigerzigerk 8y ago
    Yes, but the question is whether that translates into lower usage share or if it's just a reflection of the fact that the useful life of iPhones is longer than that of Android phones. Also, I am more interested in what's going on outside of China, because China is not representative of anything else for various reasons.

fauigerzigerk 8y ago

You better believe that iPhone sales have fallen pretty dramatically, because that is exactly what Apple has just reported. However, what I would like to know is whether Apple has lost market share outside of China. I would also like to know whether Apple's share of mobile usage has declined. I think these questions are a lot more important to developers than quarterly financials.

scarface74 8y ago
Developers don’t care about market share. If they did, they would have been prioritizing Android years ago. Developers care about reaching people who are willing and able to spend money. Statistically, that is still iOS users.
- fauigerzigerk 8y ago
  I agree that the share of spending on each platform is the most important factor for developers. But if market share declines were beginning to affect Apple's share of mobile usage, then that would be a worrying trend for iOS developers. Apple does have far wealthier customers than Android, but compensating for market share losses by moving ever further up-market would be a dangerous strategy in my view. If middle class kids are priced out of iOS, they're unlikely to come back later when they make their own money. Same for people from less wealthy countries. I do not believe that this idea of being the "aspirational product" applies to computing platforms in the same way it may apply to expensive cars. But I was just asking questions. I'm not making a claim that any of this is actually happening right now.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    I wouldn’t think that most middle class kids are buying their own phones. Either their parents are buying them or they are getting hand me downs. My son had a 2018 Moto G, he was more than happy to “upgrade” to a 2015 iPhone 6s. Mid range Android phones are nowhere near as performant as iPhones that are 3 years older. Refurbished, used iPhones are cheap. Besides, it seems to be a habit when people talk about iPhones they act as if the only iPhones that Apple sells is the maxed out $1500 iPhone XS Max. Completely ignoring the $475 iPhone 7s that will still give you better performance than most Android phones and get years of updates.
    - fauigerzigerk 8y ago
      Obviously kids are not buying their own phones, but someone is paying for them in some shape or form (hand-me-down phones are not free either). The average selling price of iPhones has gone up pretty sharply. We don't know yet if that is what's behind the drop in sales because China is such an idiosyncratic market, but I think the answer matters.
      - scarface74 8y ago
        And mobile carriers like T-mobile are increasing the length of their payment plans from two to three years. Apple is also starting to push their payment plan/trade in program harder. They are all trying to do phone-as-a-Service with continuing subscription payments where you never pay off the phone. Psychologically most people only care about the monthly cost. I’m not saying that is wise. Unless my son breaks his iPhone 6s that I bought for myself in 2015 for $750, I don’t see any reason it won’t be a good phone for another two years and the rate things are going, it might still be faster than your average mid range Android phone in 2020.
  - bunnycorn 8y ago
    Apples moves don't matter. iPhones last longer and going rates for second hand ones speak volumes for themselves. Also, Apple sells more products than the top of the line XS Max, they have plenty of middle of the road models like the iPhone 7, which is still faster than any Android phone ever made. If you really care about it, why don't you talk about the regaining iPad? Are you selling Apps for themselves? iPad is the prime platform and with Photoshop coming, it will only do good. Apple says they have now 1.4 billion active devices.
virgilp 8y ago
> However, what I would like to know is whether Apple has lost market share outside of China. Apple has been losing market share for some time, it was relatively flat on units sold while the market was increasing. See e.g. this from a year ago: https://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2018/02/apple-results-flat-sales-vs-year-before-market-share-down-one-pointst-.html https://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2018/02/apple-... > at one point Apple did 20% of all smartphones sold. The last three years? 16%, 15% and now 14%.
- fauigerzigerk 8y ago
  Yes, but the question is whether that translates into lower usage share or if it's just a reflection of the fact that the useful life of iPhones is longer than that of Android phones. Also, I am more interested in what's going on outside of China, because China is not representative of anything else for various reasons.