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More evidence as to why tipping culture needs to die. Tipping fundamentally takes away the responsibility of paying someone for their work from the employer to

More evidence as to why tipping culture needs to die. Tipping fundamentally takes away the responsibility of paying someone for their work from the employer to the customer. In what other business context do I pay an employee of a company I deal with directly outside of the service industry where tipping is common? Wages are a cost of doing business. Pay the worker enough. If you want to still provide them an incentive to work hard, offer them incentive plans! Bring up your prices to reflect the true cost of your product or service. It's time to abolish tips.

mxfh 8y ago
Tipping is the "trickle down"-myth's small scale cousin. It doesn't only take away responsibility of paying, but adds emotional and mental load cost to the customer. It's hilarious that people accept that in exchange for an illusory level of control (you being the mini manager/boss of your service task) over quality of service.
- rafiki6 8y ago
  I think many people just haven't traveled to for e.g. many European countries where tipping culture is mostly non-existent because over there people the service industry receive appropriate wages and the prices of things are adjusted accordingly. The quality of service is good, and the people working seem much happier. They have a guaranteed income for their time.
  - mxfh 8y ago
    As a customer tipping culture is highly annyoing to me, I don't want to be upsold three times per dining at least. The attention given, coming form european non-tipping culture, just feels absurdly fake to me. I feel sorry about this, but from my experience, the only other business that comes to mind, that is so build on 1-on-1 flattering "good choice sir" and selling attention to me is prostitution. I mostly don't need that much attention, when I just wand to have a beer or lunch.
    - collyw 8y ago
      >The attention given, coming form european non-tipping culture, just feels absurdly fake to me. Agreed.
  - atombender 8y ago
    In Europe the cultural meaning of a tip is also different than the US -- you tip for superb service, and it's generally only in restaurants.
    - Tor3 8y ago
      And also (in Europe) most of the time you just add enough tip to round off the number. E.g. if it's 390 you pay 400. Locals (mostly) never tip too much. Particularly in countries where people eat outside often, e.g. Italy. You add that little extra to round up the total, never mind how many people you are in the group. Tourists usually tip way too much. There's no tipping in Japan, and people get offended if you try to tip. If the taxi is 1963 yen, you pay 1963 yen (or get back the change to make it so). It's lovely. And the service is great.
      - andai 8y ago
        Why do they get offended?
        Tor3 8y ago
        It's better explained on this page than how I can explain it: https://www.tripsavvy.com/tipping-in-japan-1458316 https://www.tripsavvy.com/tipping-in-japan-1458316
        andai 8y ago
        > In countries such as Japan where gratuity isn't commonplace, leaving a tip inappropriately is almost like saying: "This business probably isn't doing well enough to pay you a proper salary, so here's a little something extra." > On the rare occasion that you actually need to give a tip in Japan, do so by putting the money inside of a tasteful, decorative envelope and seal it. The tip should be presented as more of a gift than simply additional cash or payment for services. Hand it to the recipient using both hands and with a slight bow. > Don't insist that someone accept your tip; it may be forbidden and a condition of employment. This raises more questions than it answers
  - campl3r 8y ago
    as a European I must disagree about the quality of service. I only was a few months in the US, but the quality of service was much better than here. I don't know if there's a correlation with tipping though.
    - andai 8y ago
      As a European who regularly experiences atrocious QoS in restaurants, I'd be willing to bet it has something to do with the fact they get paid a decent wage whether or not they even notice the customer. As a customer I prefer "fake" service over being ignored, but as an employee I would prefer the European system.
    - zymhan 8y ago
      As an American I also agree, since restaurants in Europe have to pay a higher wage, they can only afford a couple wait staff, which definitely makes it harder to get service. Waiters in Europe also seem to be less interested in coming to your table.
  - xster 8y ago
    Not being flippant but as a genuine question, besides just bribery, remnants of colonialism or heavy tourism destinations for North Americans, is a tipping culture existent anywhere besides North America? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity#By_region https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity#By_region We love traveling and I have yet to see local tipping culture anywhere besides North America (besides cheeky let's-get-more-money-from-the-foreign-tourist type).
  - joncalhoun 8y ago
    Most people - traveled or not - would be okay with this if they knew the service person was making a fair wage. The problem is that service workers are not fairly compensated in the current system so our options are (a) hurt the service worker by not tipping to make a point, or (b) tip so the service worker is fairly compensated. The only real way this changes is if we first make sure service workers are fairly compensated, but for most people this isn't a big enough issue to prioritize it - we only discuss it in forums like this when an article this appalling gets posted - but it is a big issue for the millions of restaurants in the US who would have to increase wages so they will all lobby against it.
- daemin 8y ago
  I think it's easier to keep the tipping culture because everyone in the USA is already used to having extra random fees added to the sticker price of things. In places where the tax and all other costs are already factored into the price, tipping is reserved for truly exceptional service.
mruts 8y ago
Well it should start with you right? Are you willing to never tip again in your entire life? If so, let us know how it goes (or maybe is going?) Or, alternatively, maybe you don't live in a country with a tipping culture. And if so, then tipping doesn't really affect you. People like to tip. I like to tip. Waiters and waitresses like to be tipped. My wife used to work as a waitress and would clear over $300 a night in tips alone. It's only a small minority of people who are against it.
- smileysteve 8y ago
  > Waiters and waitresses like to be tipped Waiters and waitresses HATE to NOT be tipped in a world where it's their livelihood. And studies have shown that this leads to racist, classist, and sexism within the service industry. - Studies show that non-caucasians receive worse service because they are perceived as likely to tip less. - Studies show that a high class restaurant server gets more in tips than a medium class restaurant, even when the food and service is of lower quality. - Studies show that men often get tipped less than women for similar service.
  - andai 8y ago
    Following that last point, it sounds like customer preference is shaping the demographics. If people prefer to be served by women, and tip them more, the field will skew female.
    - smileysteve 8y ago
      The first one is to show that both customer preference and perceived customer action affect tipping. In many ways these have self enforcing realities.
- rafiki6 8y ago
  I can't down vote your snarky comment, but yes I'd be absolutely happy to stop tipping, if the country I lived in paid fair wages to the people working in the service industry. The idea of rewarding high performers can be similarly achieved with incentive plans and at least guarantees people working in the service industry the minimum wage allowable by law. So for now, I'm going to continue tipping the culturally appropriate amount to ensure my server gets a fair wage and I will also support any activist initiative to abolish tipping.
starpilot 8y ago
Too bad every restaurant in the US that has tried to eliminate tipping has failed. Servers end up with less money, patrons end up paying more than with tips, and many patrons actually like tipping.
- throwaway415415 8y ago
  That's not true. Many restaurants in SF refuses tips. It works well.
throwaway415415 8y ago
There has been a no tipping movement in san francisco that has worked quite well. People don't tip anymore here and it is not socially accepted to do it.
- tdeck 8y ago
  As an SF resident I don't seem much evidence of this movement. I get prompted to tip very frequently for counter service, even at food trucks. People must be tipping if that's the case, although I don't watch other patrons.
  - the_clarence 8y ago
    generally people don't give tips for these things. It's just the default for a lot of these square point of sales. I don't know why square would do this honestly, this is just encouraging wrong behavior.
    - OkGoDoIt 8y ago
      It’s configurable by the business, and you know exactly why they do it, to subtly push people to pay more money. There’s plenty of counter service fast food restaurants where I would never even think of giving a tip if paying in cash, but when the Square terminal prompts me whether I want to leave a 15% or 20% tip and then I have to go into “custom” and type in 0, I feel like a jerk. I know they’re just manipulating me and I hate it, but you’ve got of assume that they make significantly more money that way. Recently I’ve seen more and more restaurants adjust the default tip amounts higher, one of my favorite cafés in North Beach recently changed the settings on their Clover point-of-sale system so the tip options are “20% okay service”, “25% great service”, “30% amazing service”, and “(other)”. It’s infuriating.
- 52-6F-62 8y ago
  I was in SF on a layover last October. Definitely tipped on our lunch and a beer downtown. But maybe that just outed us as foreigners. We didn’t get any odd treatment for it, either.
the_clarence 8y ago
tipping culture has died in part of the country. As another comment pointed out, most people don't tip in San Francisco.

mxfh 8y ago

Tipping is the "trickle down"-myth's small scale cousin. It doesn't only take away responsibility of paying, but adds emotional and mental load cost to the customer. It's hilarious that people accept that in exchange for an illusory level of control (you being the mini manager/boss of your service task) over quality of service.

rafiki6 8y ago
I think many people just haven't traveled to for e.g. many European countries where tipping culture is mostly non-existent because over there people the service industry receive appropriate wages and the prices of things are adjusted accordingly. The quality of service is good, and the people working seem much happier. They have a guaranteed income for their time.
- mxfh 8y ago
  As a customer tipping culture is highly annyoing to me, I don't want to be upsold three times per dining at least. The attention given, coming form european non-tipping culture, just feels absurdly fake to me. I feel sorry about this, but from my experience, the only other business that comes to mind, that is so build on 1-on-1 flattering "good choice sir" and selling attention to me is prostitution. I mostly don't need that much attention, when I just wand to have a beer or lunch.
  - collyw 8y ago
    >The attention given, coming form european non-tipping culture, just feels absurdly fake to me. Agreed.
- atombender 8y ago
  In Europe the cultural meaning of a tip is also different than the US -- you tip for superb service, and it's generally only in restaurants.
  - Tor3 8y ago
    And also (in Europe) most of the time you just add enough tip to round off the number. E.g. if it's 390 you pay 400. Locals (mostly) never tip too much. Particularly in countries where people eat outside often, e.g. Italy. You add that little extra to round up the total, never mind how many people you are in the group. Tourists usually tip way too much. There's no tipping in Japan, and people get offended if you try to tip. If the taxi is 1963 yen, you pay 1963 yen (or get back the change to make it so). It's lovely. And the service is great.
    - andai 8y ago
      Why do they get offended?
      - Tor3 8y ago
        It's better explained on this page than how I can explain it: https://www.tripsavvy.com/tipping-in-japan-1458316 https://www.tripsavvy.com/tipping-in-japan-1458316
        andai 8y ago
        > In countries such as Japan where gratuity isn't commonplace, leaving a tip inappropriately is almost like saying: "This business probably isn't doing well enough to pay you a proper salary, so here's a little something extra." > On the rare occasion that you actually need to give a tip in Japan, do so by putting the money inside of a tasteful, decorative envelope and seal it. The tip should be presented as more of a gift than simply additional cash or payment for services. Hand it to the recipient using both hands and with a slight bow. > Don't insist that someone accept your tip; it may be forbidden and a condition of employment. This raises more questions than it answers
- campl3r 8y ago
  as a European I must disagree about the quality of service. I only was a few months in the US, but the quality of service was much better than here. I don't know if there's a correlation with tipping though.
  - andai 8y ago
    As a European who regularly experiences atrocious QoS in restaurants, I'd be willing to bet it has something to do with the fact they get paid a decent wage whether or not they even notice the customer. As a customer I prefer "fake" service over being ignored, but as an employee I would prefer the European system.
  - zymhan 8y ago
    As an American I also agree, since restaurants in Europe have to pay a higher wage, they can only afford a couple wait staff, which definitely makes it harder to get service. Waiters in Europe also seem to be less interested in coming to your table.
- xster 8y ago
  Not being flippant but as a genuine question, besides just bribery, remnants of colonialism or heavy tourism destinations for North Americans, is a tipping culture existent anywhere besides North America? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity#By_region https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity#By_region We love traveling and I have yet to see local tipping culture anywhere besides North America (besides cheeky let's-get-more-money-from-the-foreign-tourist type).
- joncalhoun 8y ago
  Most people - traveled or not - would be okay with this if they knew the service person was making a fair wage. The problem is that service workers are not fairly compensated in the current system so our options are (a) hurt the service worker by not tipping to make a point, or (b) tip so the service worker is fairly compensated. The only real way this changes is if we first make sure service workers are fairly compensated, but for most people this isn't a big enough issue to prioritize it - we only discuss it in forums like this when an article this appalling gets posted - but it is a big issue for the millions of restaurants in the US who would have to increase wages so they will all lobby against it.
daemin 8y ago
I think it's easier to keep the tipping culture because everyone in the USA is already used to having extra random fees added to the sticker price of things. In places where the tax and all other costs are already factored into the price, tipping is reserved for truly exceptional service.

mruts 8y ago

Well it should start with you right? Are you willing to never tip again in your entire life? If so, let us know how it goes (or maybe is going?) Or, alternatively, maybe you don't live in a country with a tipping culture. And if so, then tipping doesn't really affect you. People like to tip. I like to tip. Waiters and waitresses like to be tipped. My wife used to work as a waitress and would clear over $300 a night in tips alone. It's only a small minority of people who are against it.

smileysteve 8y ago
> Waiters and waitresses like to be tipped Waiters and waitresses HATE to NOT be tipped in a world where it's their livelihood. And studies have shown that this leads to racist, classist, and sexism within the service industry. - Studies show that non-caucasians receive worse service because they are perceived as likely to tip less. - Studies show that a high class restaurant server gets more in tips than a medium class restaurant, even when the food and service is of lower quality. - Studies show that men often get tipped less than women for similar service.
- andai 8y ago
  Following that last point, it sounds like customer preference is shaping the demographics. If people prefer to be served by women, and tip them more, the field will skew female.
  - smileysteve 8y ago
    The first one is to show that both customer preference and perceived customer action affect tipping. In many ways these have self enforcing realities.
rafiki6 8y ago
I can't down vote your snarky comment, but yes I'd be absolutely happy to stop tipping, if the country I lived in paid fair wages to the people working in the service industry. The idea of rewarding high performers can be similarly achieved with incentive plans and at least guarantees people working in the service industry the minimum wage allowable by law. So for now, I'm going to continue tipping the culturally appropriate amount to ensure my server gets a fair wage and I will also support any activist initiative to abolish tipping.

starpilot 8y ago

Too bad every restaurant in the US that has tried to eliminate tipping has failed. Servers end up with less money, patrons end up paying more than with tips, and many patrons actually like tipping.

throwaway415415 8y ago
That's not true. Many restaurants in SF refuses tips. It works well.

throwaway415415 8y ago

There has been a no tipping movement in san francisco that has worked quite well. People don't tip anymore here and it is not socially accepted to do it.

tdeck 8y ago
As an SF resident I don't seem much evidence of this movement. I get prompted to tip very frequently for counter service, even at food trucks. People must be tipping if that's the case, although I don't watch other patrons.
- the_clarence 8y ago
  generally people don't give tips for these things. It's just the default for a lot of these square point of sales. I don't know why square would do this honestly, this is just encouraging wrong behavior.
  - OkGoDoIt 8y ago
    It’s configurable by the business, and you know exactly why they do it, to subtly push people to pay more money. There’s plenty of counter service fast food restaurants where I would never even think of giving a tip if paying in cash, but when the Square terminal prompts me whether I want to leave a 15% or 20% tip and then I have to go into “custom” and type in 0, I feel like a jerk. I know they’re just manipulating me and I hate it, but you’ve got of assume that they make significantly more money that way. Recently I’ve seen more and more restaurants adjust the default tip amounts higher, one of my favorite cafés in North Beach recently changed the settings on their Clover point-of-sale system so the tip options are “20% okay service”, “25% great service”, “30% amazing service”, and “(other)”. It’s infuriating.
52-6F-62 8y ago
I was in SF on a layover last October. Definitely tipped on our lunch and a beer downtown. But maybe that just outed us as foreigners. We didn’t get any odd treatment for it, either.

the_clarence 8y ago

tipping culture has died in part of the country. As another comment pointed out, most people don't tip in San Francisco.