7 ms·

And while it is not as important an issue, I, as a tipper, feel that I have been defrauded when this happens (now that I am aware that this does happen, I assum

And while it is not as important an issue, I, as a tipper, feel that I have been defrauded when this happens (now that I am aware that this does happen, I assume that it has probably been done with some tips I have made.) To be clear: this is not an alternative way of looking at the issue, it is an additional indictment stemming from the practice.

TAForObvReasons 8y ago
Switch to cash tipping. Tipping through CC or some other mechanism means at least one other party is involved and takes a cut. Cash tipping ensures the money at least is seen by the service staff.
- dmurray 8y ago
  Statistically speaking, the main party missing out on its cut when you tip in cash is the IRS. Not really an ethical concern for most of us, but for those who do feel bad about this, you could just overpay your taxes every year by say 10% of what you estimate you tipped in cash.
  - lukev 8y ago
    It is the obligation of the tipped employee to report their tips as income and pay taxes on them. True, it's difficult to audit so sometimes they don't, but that's hardly my problem. The notion that you should overpay your own taxes to solve this is just bewildering.
  - jdavis703 8y ago
    The worker is supposed to report all cash tips. Since most of these workers probably pay little to no taxes, it really doesn’t harm the treasury, even if they fail to report.
  - kaslai 8y ago
    Recipients of cash tips must report the income to the IRS for taxation purposes. The fact that many people choose to refuse to disclose their cash tip earnings doesn't mean that I should bulk up my taxes to make up for their fraud.
  - useful 8y ago
    Companies must now report credit card transactions to the IRS. It's possible for them to see % of cash vs credit and the amount topped in credit. It would not be hard for them to audit you, the worker, if you report lower cash tips than the average than your boss reports in his business.
- heimidal 8y ago
  I’m pretty comfortable tipping via credit card because I understand that the card company and a bank is taking a cut. I am _not_ comfortable with something like this, where it’s not immediately clear what’s happening.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - blincoln 8y ago
    Anecdotally, I've been told by a lot of former restaurant workers that management generally walks off with most or all of the credit card tips. I generally tip in cash everywhere as a result.
    - icelancer 8y ago
      I worked for years as a server and this never happened to me. We just got taxed on them and everyone didn't report their cash tips.
thaumasiotes 8y ago
> I, as a tipper, feel that I have been defrauded when this happens It is standard (though not universal) practice for restaurant staff to pool and divide tips, which would appear to be the same thing from a defrauding-the-tipper perspective. I'm more upset about this line from Instacart: > We include tips in the calculation [of pay for deliveries] so that you can get a more accurate picture of what your earnings will be after completing a batch. This is incredibly dishonest. They're arguing with a straight face that they're doing you a favor by smoothing your earnings from an unpredictable (for example) $8-$50 per hour down to a more reliable $8-$9 per hour. This is actually the same argument the US government advances in favor of its sugar tariff. Sure, it raises the price of sugar by 200% on average, but it protects us from the awful unpredictability of the world sugar price.
- jlarocco 8y ago
  Tip pooling/sharing is different in a few significant ways, though. First, restaurant staff always know ahead of time if they have to share tips. And their hourly compensation, as ridiculously low as it may be, is never adjusted to compensate for higher than normal tips. And, finally, in most restaurants the tip pool is also split up with bussers, bartenders, and hosts who don't always make tips of their own, but still contribute to the overall experience.
  - thaumasiotes 8y ago
    I agree that the first two points are significant, but I don't think they're particularly relevant to the viewpoint "as a tipper, I feel I'm being defrauded when this happens". The third point is also correct, but in that case I think it supports the idea that the tipper is being defrauded when it happens.
    - maxerickson 8y ago
      I feel like you maybe need to write a book about why you think a server sharing their tips around is equivalent to a corporation reducing wages based on tips. I don't see how any shorter treatment would be a sufficient explanation. I mean, imagine the scenario where the server just buys a line cook a drink to say thank you. Fraud!
kofejnik 8y ago
and it also reinforces the point that the whole tipping culture is ridiculous

TAForObvReasons 8y ago

Switch to cash tipping. Tipping through CC or some other mechanism means at least one other party is involved and takes a cut. Cash tipping ensures the money at least is seen by the service staff.

dmurray 8y ago
Statistically speaking, the main party missing out on its cut when you tip in cash is the IRS. Not really an ethical concern for most of us, but for those who do feel bad about this, you could just overpay your taxes every year by say 10% of what you estimate you tipped in cash.
- lukev 8y ago
  It is the obligation of the tipped employee to report their tips as income and pay taxes on them. True, it's difficult to audit so sometimes they don't, but that's hardly my problem. The notion that you should overpay your own taxes to solve this is just bewildering.
- jdavis703 8y ago
  The worker is supposed to report all cash tips. Since most of these workers probably pay little to no taxes, it really doesn’t harm the treasury, even if they fail to report.
- kaslai 8y ago
  Recipients of cash tips must report the income to the IRS for taxation purposes. The fact that many people choose to refuse to disclose their cash tip earnings doesn't mean that I should bulk up my taxes to make up for their fraud.
- useful 8y ago
  Companies must now report credit card transactions to the IRS. It's possible for them to see % of cash vs credit and the amount topped in credit. It would not be hard for them to audit you, the worker, if you report lower cash tips than the average than your boss reports in his business.
heimidal 8y ago
I’m pretty comfortable tipping via credit card because I understand that the card company and a bank is taking a cut. I am _not_ comfortable with something like this, where it’s not immediately clear what’s happening.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- blincoln 8y ago
  Anecdotally, I've been told by a lot of former restaurant workers that management generally walks off with most or all of the credit card tips. I generally tip in cash everywhere as a result.
  - icelancer 8y ago
    I worked for years as a server and this never happened to me. We just got taxed on them and everyone didn't report their cash tips.

thaumasiotes 8y ago

> I, as a tipper, feel that I have been defrauded when this happens It is standard (though not universal) practice for restaurant staff to pool and divide tips, which would appear to be the same thing from a defrauding-the-tipper perspective. I'm more upset about this line from Instacart: > We include tips in the calculation [of pay for deliveries] so that you can get a more accurate picture of what your earnings will be after completing a batch. This is incredibly dishonest. They're arguing with a straight face that they're doing you a favor by smoothing your earnings from an unpredictable (for example) $8-$50 per hour down to a more reliable $8-$9 per hour. This is actually the same argument the US government advances in favor of its sugar tariff. Sure, it raises the price of sugar by 200% on average, but it protects us from the awful unpredictability of the world sugar price.

jlarocco 8y ago
Tip pooling/sharing is different in a few significant ways, though. First, restaurant staff always know ahead of time if they have to share tips. And their hourly compensation, as ridiculously low as it may be, is never adjusted to compensate for higher than normal tips. And, finally, in most restaurants the tip pool is also split up with bussers, bartenders, and hosts who don't always make tips of their own, but still contribute to the overall experience.
- thaumasiotes 8y ago
  I agree that the first two points are significant, but I don't think they're particularly relevant to the viewpoint "as a tipper, I feel I'm being defrauded when this happens". The third point is also correct, but in that case I think it supports the idea that the tipper is being defrauded when it happens.
  - maxerickson 8y ago
    I feel like you maybe need to write a book about why you think a server sharing their tips around is equivalent to a corporation reducing wages based on tips. I don't see how any shorter treatment would be a sufficient explanation. I mean, imagine the scenario where the server just buys a line cook a drink to say thank you. Fraud!

kofejnik 8y ago

and it also reinforces the point that the whole tipping culture is ridiculous