3 ms·

This is terrible for the worker and highly deceptive to the client. Surely this is fraud? Collecting tips but not passing it on?

pjc50 8y ago
Of course it's illegal to steal tips, but actually enforcing that is another matter. Companies will blatantly build illegal business models. And of course some developer coded this automated tip stealing.
- WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
  This is why I support unions... when you have strength in numbers, you can have an ethical code that can be followed. Firing one guy because he won't steal from your customers won't fly if the union tells your entire development team to walk and they'll cover wages until they get a better job.
- mesozoic 8y ago
  Can you cite any statute that says this is illegal?
  - siphor 8y ago
    Might fit under fraud. I hope it does. When I first learned of this tactic, I felt tricked. I assumed with a tip, that I was boosting someone’s salary for a job well done. I’m sure it’s debatable, and that my assumption was wrong? But I imagine most people feel this what a tip is. Fraud n. the intentional use of deceit, a trick or some dishonest means to deprive another of his/her/its money, property or a legal right.
    - panda888888 8y ago
      It's explicitly illegal under Washington State law: RCW 49.46.020 section 3: "Tips and service charges paid to an employee are in addition to, and may not count towards, the employee's hourly minimum wage."
    - nshepperd 8y ago
      It's absolutely defrauding the customer, in addition to whatever laws there might be specifically about wages. They're asking you for money with a description of what the money is for that is between misleading and an outright lie. That's fraud.
  - panda888888 8y ago
    Yes. Washington State law is explicit about this. RCW 49.46.020 section 3: "Tips and service charges paid to an employee are in addition to, and may not count towards, the employee's hourly minimum wage." Source: https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=49.46.020 https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=49.46.020

pjc50 8y ago

Of course it's illegal to steal tips, but actually enforcing that is another matter. Companies will blatantly build illegal business models. And of course some developer coded this automated tip stealing.

WrtCdEvrydy 8y ago
This is why I support unions... when you have strength in numbers, you can have an ethical code that can be followed. Firing one guy because he won't steal from your customers won't fly if the union tells your entire development team to walk and they'll cover wages until they get a better job.
mesozoic 8y ago
Can you cite any statute that says this is illegal?
- siphor 8y ago
  Might fit under fraud. I hope it does. When I first learned of this tactic, I felt tricked. I assumed with a tip, that I was boosting someone’s salary for a job well done. I’m sure it’s debatable, and that my assumption was wrong? But I imagine most people feel this what a tip is. Fraud n. the intentional use of deceit, a trick or some dishonest means to deprive another of his/her/its money, property or a legal right.
  - panda888888 8y ago
    It's explicitly illegal under Washington State law: RCW 49.46.020 section 3: "Tips and service charges paid to an employee are in addition to, and may not count towards, the employee's hourly minimum wage."
  - nshepperd 8y ago
    It's absolutely defrauding the customer, in addition to whatever laws there might be specifically about wages. They're asking you for money with a description of what the money is for that is between misleading and an outright lie. That's fraud.
- panda888888 8y ago
  Yes. Washington State law is explicit about this. RCW 49.46.020 section 3: "Tips and service charges paid to an employee are in addition to, and may not count towards, the employee's hourly minimum wage." Source: https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=49.46.020 https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=49.46.020