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I used to work for a delivery company with this same pay structure. This is garbage and its taking advantage of young people who are looking for jobs.

by awake 8y ago

dymk 8y ago
Serious question: if somebody knows that a job like this is such a ripoff (even if the rates aren't advertised, you _will_ find out soon enough, if via stories like this), why would somebody take a job like this?
- tedivm 8y ago
  The reason people take jobs like this is that they don't have other options, often for a variety of reasons. I know that a lot of the people I talk to need the flexible hours due to family obligations. For some these types of jobs are supplemental- they aren't the primary source of income, but provide a bit extra when money is tight. For some people though there just aren't a lot of jobs available that match their education and experience.
- jonathankoren 8y ago
  Because they need the money. People that are desperate for money are frequently exploited. Whether it's through wage theft, or unsafe employment practices, or simply demeaning behavior.
- adetrest 8y ago
  Not everyone is a software developer with companies fighting over them. Some really don't have options, and the choice is either get no income and be unable to pay your bills, or get screwed over but get some money to pay the bills.
  - HillaryBriss 8y ago
    > Some really don't have options. Unfortunately, in this economy, it's probably more accurate to say "most people really don't have options" rather than "some"
    - owlninja 8y ago
      I thought the labor market was actually very strong right now?
    - CameronBanga 8y ago
      The job market is as strong as it has been in the past ~30+ years?
      - fzeroracer 8y ago
        It's important to keep in mind that a low unemployment rate does not say anything about the overall quality of jobs in the market. So while it's a 'strong market' in the sense that 'unemployment is low', it could also be examined from another angle. Which is the rise of the gig economy giving people a lot of opportunities for work, but work that comes at a cost of being heavily exploited like with Instacart. Nor does it say anything about whether or not people are holding full time vs part time jobs or the stagnant wage issues.
        HillaryBriss 8y ago
        yes. "unemployment is low" is a measure of the job market. we can say it's "strong" by that measure. but, as you say, when we look at the actual jobs there's a helluva lot of retail and other low wage, limited benefit positions, positions whose salaries have lagged far behind the skyrocketing costs of health care and higher education.
- jolmg 8y ago
  Because they need to. We're talking about unskilled work. You take what you can get. Such companies know there are unskilled workers that will put up with it and take advantage of that.
- threwawasy1228 8y ago
  All of the waiters/cooks/waitresses at a low-quality diner I frequent regularly have felonies for robbery or drugs. Ever since I've been going there I would say the vast majority of new hires have been people who couldn't get a job in other places because of their felony records and lack of education. When you have a felony a lot of higher-paying unskilled jobs will simply filter you out as being too high risk or likely to cause trouble. So the only places that will hire these kinds of people can get away with crazy tactics like the ones people are discussing in these threads. When your choice is exploitative tactics or literally no other option because the entire market has you blacklisted you are going to take the horrible option knowing full well it is a horrible option.
excalibur 8y ago
Is this common? When I tip it's always with the intent of helping the individual, never the company. The much larger original bill is their share, in case they've forgotten. Are cash tips an effective method of keeping grubby corporate hands out of it?
- lazyasciiart 8y ago
  It's an expected business structure in every state where the tipped minimum wage is below actual minimum wage.
- mawburn 8y ago
  IHOP will adjust wages based on tips, they try to equal it out to minimum wage. My wife lasted about 3 weeks there. It was also by far the hardest I've ever seen her work, and for context we met in the Army.
  - itronitron 8y ago
    I think I finally understand why my former very blue-collar coworkers would never leave a tip when we went out for lunch. I guess they had better information on the local businesses.
    - mawburn 8y ago
      A lot of places' wait staff can make fairly decent money. They will usually make below minimum wage, but they often come out way ahead. So at some level, most businesses where you're expected to tip are using tips to subsidize wages. But there are some who take it to the next level, like IHOP or Instacart. My mom was a waitress most of my life and made decent money, so I always tip 20-25% and a minimum of $5 unless I get extra shitty service. Depending on where you and your coworkers ate at, I would say they were just cheap asses.
    - DATACOMMANDER 8y ago
      No, that’s just rude (given that the tipping culture still exists). If they really wanted to show solidarity they’d leave cash tips, which their server could then forget to report.

I used to work for a delivery company with this same pay structure. This is garbage and its taking advantage of young people who are looking for jobs.

by awake 8y ago

I used to work for a delivery company with this same pay structure. This is garbage and its taking advantage of young people who are looking for jobs.

dymk 8y ago

Serious question: if somebody knows that a job like this is such a ripoff (even if the rates aren't advertised, you _will_ find out soon enough, if via stories like this), why would somebody take a job like this?

tedivm 8y ago
The reason people take jobs like this is that they don't have other options, often for a variety of reasons. I know that a lot of the people I talk to need the flexible hours due to family obligations. For some these types of jobs are supplemental- they aren't the primary source of income, but provide a bit extra when money is tight. For some people though there just aren't a lot of jobs available that match their education and experience.
jonathankoren 8y ago
Because they need the money. People that are desperate for money are frequently exploited. Whether it's through wage theft, or unsafe employment practices, or simply demeaning behavior.
adetrest 8y ago
Not everyone is a software developer with companies fighting over them. Some really don't have options, and the choice is either get no income and be unable to pay your bills, or get screwed over but get some money to pay the bills.
- HillaryBriss 8y ago
  > Some really don't have options. Unfortunately, in this economy, it's probably more accurate to say "most people really don't have options" rather than "some"
  - owlninja 8y ago
    I thought the labor market was actually very strong right now?
  - CameronBanga 8y ago
    The job market is as strong as it has been in the past ~30+ years?
    - fzeroracer 8y ago
      It's important to keep in mind that a low unemployment rate does not say anything about the overall quality of jobs in the market. So while it's a 'strong market' in the sense that 'unemployment is low', it could also be examined from another angle. Which is the rise of the gig economy giving people a lot of opportunities for work, but work that comes at a cost of being heavily exploited like with Instacart. Nor does it say anything about whether or not people are holding full time vs part time jobs or the stagnant wage issues.
      - HillaryBriss 8y ago
        yes. "unemployment is low" is a measure of the job market. we can say it's "strong" by that measure. but, as you say, when we look at the actual jobs there's a helluva lot of retail and other low wage, limited benefit positions, positions whose salaries have lagged far behind the skyrocketing costs of health care and higher education.
jolmg 8y ago
Because they need to. We're talking about unskilled work. You take what you can get. Such companies know there are unskilled workers that will put up with it and take advantage of that.
threwawasy1228 8y ago
All of the waiters/cooks/waitresses at a low-quality diner I frequent regularly have felonies for robbery or drugs. Ever since I've been going there I would say the vast majority of new hires have been people who couldn't get a job in other places because of their felony records and lack of education. When you have a felony a lot of higher-paying unskilled jobs will simply filter you out as being too high risk or likely to cause trouble. So the only places that will hire these kinds of people can get away with crazy tactics like the ones people are discussing in these threads. When your choice is exploitative tactics or literally no other option because the entire market has you blacklisted you are going to take the horrible option knowing full well it is a horrible option.

excalibur 8y ago

Is this common? When I tip it's always with the intent of helping the individual, never the company. The much larger original bill is their share, in case they've forgotten. Are cash tips an effective method of keeping grubby corporate hands out of it?

lazyasciiart 8y ago
It's an expected business structure in every state where the tipped minimum wage is below actual minimum wage.
mawburn 8y ago
IHOP will adjust wages based on tips, they try to equal it out to minimum wage. My wife lasted about 3 weeks there. It was also by far the hardest I've ever seen her work, and for context we met in the Army.
- itronitron 8y ago
  I think I finally understand why my former very blue-collar coworkers would never leave a tip when we went out for lunch. I guess they had better information on the local businesses.
  - mawburn 8y ago
    A lot of places' wait staff can make fairly decent money. They will usually make below minimum wage, but they often come out way ahead. So at some level, most businesses where you're expected to tip are using tips to subsidize wages. But there are some who take it to the next level, like IHOP or Instacart. My mom was a waitress most of my life and made decent money, so I always tip 20-25% and a minimum of $5 unless I get extra shitty service. Depending on where you and your coworkers ate at, I would say they were just cheap asses.
  - DATACOMMANDER 8y ago
    No, that’s just rude (given that the tipping culture still exists). If they really wanted to show solidarity they’d leave cash tips, which their server could then forget to report.