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Despite the tirade of anti-facebook/google/amazon blogs and posts in the last 5 years, I'm still not convinced that "being tracked" in my day-to-day life is a n

by kawfey 8y ago

Despite the tirade of anti-facebook/google/amazon blogs and posts in the last 5 years, I'm still not convinced that "being tracked" in my day-to-day life is a negative thing. I still don't perceive that my privacy is lost when I use those services. That information is shared with companies who use the data more-or-less responsibly with respect to my life. Personally I prefer having a majority of my internet experience centralized in one place. Calendar, Email, files, maps, news, search, entertainment, etc. This saves a lot of time and effort in my life. Is it worth it?

lostcolony 8y ago
Until they don't. Just because you don't balk at the current usage (that you know of), doesn't mean they aren't, or won't, do something you won't balk at. Anything learned can't be unlearned, and so by definition you've allowed them collect any data they are able to, and to do anything they wish with the data they collect.
slenk 8y ago
My only fear with having everything centralized is that Google can decide you did something wrong and cut you out of so many important things in your life, without recourse. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15989146 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15989146 is just one example I found with minimal searching.
- fencepost 8y ago
  You might also enjoy Cory Doctorow's "Scroogled": https://craphound.com/scroogled.html https://craphound.com/scroogled.html Though for whatever reason the formatting on that appears terrible (to me in my uMatrix locked down Firefox)
  - fxfan 8y ago
    I had a nice umatrix config saved to the cloud but it got deleted somewhere in the last one year (I had to temporarily switch to chrome). Did that happen to you too?
fucking_tragedy 8y ago
I was tracked by an abusive ex for months via my Google account. Location history allowed them to show up at places they knew I would be at, and they had access to my email and who knows what else before I figured out what they were doing. If you're a dissident, a journalist[1] or a political party member[2], there are powerful people who might want to track or silence you. If you're the wrong type of minority in the wrong place at the wrong time, there are people who might want to put you in camps[3] or murder you[4]. A KGB-style surveillance apparatus that's used to better target ads can be abused by anyone with an agenda, no matter how petty their motivation is. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/02/01/2017-was-the-most-dangerous-year-ever-for-journalists-2018-might-be-even-worse/?utm_term=.8e808c2ab5da https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/02/01... [2] https://qz.com/1089384/the-communist-app-store-chinas-endless-apps-for-tracking-organizing-and-motivating-party-members/ https://qz.com/1089384/the-communist-app-store-chinas-endles... [3] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-camps-china/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-... [4] http://time.com/chechnya-movsar/ http://time.com/chechnya-movsar/
- filoleg 8y ago
  How is it Google's fault that someone else had access to your account and (for all intents and purposes) impersonated you? If someone gets access to any of your important accounts on your behalf (which would include your primary email), you will have a lot of opportunities to get screwed over. Email access alone can be enough, in a lot of cases.
  - fucking_tragedy 8y ago
    > How is it Google's fault that someone else had access to your account Please don't strawman my anecdote. I never said it was Google's fault. However, I did say that Google's surveillance system enabled a level of stalking that's never been this accessible to laymen and nation-states alike.
    - sridca 8y ago
      > I did say that Google's surveillance system enabled a level of stalking *Google's surveillance system in conjunction with irresponsibly giving one's account login to one's ex Fixed that for you.
bobthepanda 8y ago
They use it responsibly now, but that assumes they’ll always use it responsibly. And what happens in the worst case scenario, when some actor takes over who may not care for laws and constitutions?
icebraining 8y ago
Hence the GDPR: it's perfectly fine to track your every move as long as they get explicit, opt-in consent for doing so.
megaman8 8y ago
So far they haven't really done much wrong. But, the problem is, the potential for wrong doing is so enormous. Google has so much power to control the fate of every business on this planet: I think this is just begging for abuse. It's remarkable that they've gone this long without any more serious scandals.
sridca 8y ago
> Despite the tirade of anti-facebook/google/amazon blogs and posts in the last 5 years, I'm still not convinced that "being tracked" in my day-to-day life is a negative thing I made a similar observation before, and despite reasonable points raised I was downvoted to oblivion both here and at lobste.rs. It is one of those things you can't say[1] here. [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html
luord 8y ago
Well I'm not sure this mentality won't have consequences, I find myself doing what you do. Not precisely because of trust or because I think they're well behaved but simply because I don't care about the tracking and, while I'm not certain, I do hope nothing bad comes of it. In fact, I actually bought the pixel 3 just two weeks ago. It's nice.

by kawfey 8y ago

lostcolony 8y ago

Until they don't. Just because you don't balk at the current usage (that you know of), doesn't mean they aren't, or won't, do something you won't balk at. Anything learned can't be unlearned, and so by definition you've allowed them collect any data they are able to, and to do anything they wish with the data they collect.

slenk 8y ago

My only fear with having everything centralized is that Google can decide you did something wrong and cut you out of so many important things in your life, without recourse. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15989146 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15989146 is just one example I found with minimal searching.

fencepost 8y ago
You might also enjoy Cory Doctorow's "Scroogled": https://craphound.com/scroogled.html https://craphound.com/scroogled.html Though for whatever reason the formatting on that appears terrible (to me in my uMatrix locked down Firefox)
- fxfan 8y ago
  I had a nice umatrix config saved to the cloud but it got deleted somewhere in the last one year (I had to temporarily switch to chrome). Did that happen to you too?

fucking_tragedy 8y ago

I was tracked by an abusive ex for months via my Google account. Location history allowed them to show up at places they knew I would be at, and they had access to my email and who knows what else before I figured out what they were doing. If you're a dissident, a journalist[1] or a political party member[2], there are powerful people who might want to track or silence you. If you're the wrong type of minority in the wrong place at the wrong time, there are people who might want to put you in camps[3] or murder you[4]. A KGB-style surveillance apparatus that's used to better target ads can be abused by anyone with an agenda, no matter how petty their motivation is. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/02/01/2017-was-the-most-dangerous-year-ever-for-journalists-2018-might-be-even-worse/?utm_term=.8e808c2ab5da https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/02/01... [2] https://qz.com/1089384/the-communist-app-store-chinas-endless-apps-for-tracking-organizing-and-motivating-party-members/ https://qz.com/1089384/the-communist-app-store-chinas-endles... [3] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-camps-china/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-... [4] http://time.com/chechnya-movsar/ http://time.com/chechnya-movsar/

filoleg 8y ago
How is it Google's fault that someone else had access to your account and (for all intents and purposes) impersonated you? If someone gets access to any of your important accounts on your behalf (which would include your primary email), you will have a lot of opportunities to get screwed over. Email access alone can be enough, in a lot of cases.
- fucking_tragedy 8y ago
  > How is it Google's fault that someone else had access to your account Please don't strawman my anecdote. I never said it was Google's fault. However, I did say that Google's surveillance system enabled a level of stalking that's never been this accessible to laymen and nation-states alike.
  - sridca 8y ago
    > I did say that Google's surveillance system enabled a level of stalking *Google's surveillance system in conjunction with irresponsibly giving one's account login to one's ex Fixed that for you.

bobthepanda 8y ago

They use it responsibly now, but that assumes they’ll always use it responsibly. And what happens in the worst case scenario, when some actor takes over who may not care for laws and constitutions?

icebraining 8y ago

Hence the GDPR: it's perfectly fine to track your every move as long as they get explicit, opt-in consent for doing so.

megaman8 8y ago

So far they haven't really done much wrong. But, the problem is, the potential for wrong doing is so enormous. Google has so much power to control the fate of every business on this planet: I think this is just begging for abuse. It's remarkable that they've gone this long without any more serious scandals.

sridca 8y ago

> Despite the tirade of anti-facebook/google/amazon blogs and posts in the last 5 years, I'm still not convinced that "being tracked" in my day-to-day life is a negative thing I made a similar observation before, and despite reasonable points raised I was downvoted to oblivion both here and at lobste.rs. It is one of those things you can't say[1] here. [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html

luord 8y ago

Well I'm not sure this mentality won't have consequences, I find myself doing what you do. Not precisely because of trust or because I think they're well behaved but simply because I don't care about the tracking and, while I'm not certain, I do hope nothing bad comes of it. In fact, I actually bought the pixel 3 just two weeks ago. It's nice.