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"Our findings suggest that positive well‐being may protect against symptoms of depression in people with autism." Wait, so the theory is that if you're general

"Our findings suggest that positive well‐being may protect against symptoms of depression in people with autism." Wait, so the theory is that if you're generally happy, you're less likely to be depressed? I know that depression and sadness are very different things, and happy people get depressed, but... it sure seems like you'd expect a correlation. Not only does this seem a little bit obvious, it also doesn't seem immediately useful. And further down it notes that this is entirely consistent with research in the general population, so this result is... also totally unsurprising. Is there a reason at all to believe that this would be true for people generally but not for people with ASD?

Wohlf 8y ago
My guess is that they set out to find anything specific about causes of mental health issues in people with autism, and found that it manifests basically the same as everyone else.
lugg 8y ago
I think you read too much into the summary (I did the same.) Took a while to grok it but: People with ASD have much, (much, much,) higher incidence rates of mental health problems usually stemming from loss/lack of employment viability. What this study concludes is that the supportive employment program buffers against those health issues that effect so many with ASD. Couple years old but I recall this talk being vaguely relevant. https://youtu.be/NCAErePScO0 https://youtu.be/NCAErePScO0 (Mental health info around 11:20) So yes, kind of obvious, and seemingly useless information alas we have the statistics, we have the problem, and now we know of one such solution. Non ASD would likely benefit from the employment program as well but to the same extent? Unlikely - but only because there is less room to improve.
cbhl 8y ago
As far as I can tell, "well-being" specifically refers to the 14-item version of the "Warwick-Edinburgh Mental Wellbeing Scale", which contains items like "feeling useful" and "dealing with problems well" (things that you'd expect one would rate higher if you have a job). https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/med/research/platform/wemwbs/ https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/med/research/platform/wemwbs/ You literally self-rate the fourteen items on a scale from 1 to 5: https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/med/research/platform/wemwbs/wemwbs_14_item.pdf https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/med/research/platform/wemwbs/w...
- roywiggins 8y ago
  but also "optimistic about the future", "energy to spare", "feeling good about myself", "interested in new things", "feeling cheerful". How many depressed people could plausibly rate themselves high on those? Having no energy, being pessimistic, not interested in anything, and feeling bad about yourself are... pretty classic symptoms of depression, though I don't know what the exact clinical requirements are.
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    In the absence of a blood test that can report "you're 79% depressed, we have to rely on self-reporting. Which is error prone as the scales are highly individual. As I understand it, and someone correct me if I don't, these self-reporting scales are just a loose diagnostic indicator. They're more useful over time, especially if receiving therapy or medication, as the change in responses can be tracked.
    - roywiggins 8y ago
      Right, sure, but the study treats well-being and symptoms of depression as separate things. But if well-being is stuff like being optimistic and fulfilled, then it seems to me hardly a surprise that being optimistic and fulfilled makes you less likely to become depressed, in the same way that not being depressed today makes you less likely to be depressed tomorrow. So I'm trying to work out what this study is actually saying, other than non-depressed people (with ASD) are less likely to be depressed in the future than currently slightly-to-very depressed people.
- JimboOmega 8y ago
  What does it mean to score very poorly on this? My therapist uses a different questionnaire that has more negative questions like "Little interest or pleasure in doing things" or "Poor appetite or overeating". I tend to do alright on that one. However, I score over 2 on only a few of the items on the list you posted, and a lot of them are solidly 1. There's a feeling of tension, anger, and frustration I just can't shake. There's a big difference (to me anyway) in the wording between "Feeling bad about yourself – or that you are a failure or have let yourself or family down" and "I’ve been feeling good about myself" I wouldn't say that I feel like a failure (and I have nobody who cares enough to let down), but I sure haven't been feeling good either. I don't know quite how to express this doctors and mental health professionals in a way they understand, though, and this scale really kind of illustrates it for me, so I'm wondering what that means?
9wzYQbTYsAIc 8y ago
Something extremely important to keep in mind is that, with psychological studies, many things that people assume as obvious are completely wrong after a study demonstrates it and other things, that people would never guess, seem completely obvious after a study demonstrates it.
- vanderZwan 8y ago
  This is true for any scientific field. That's kind of the point: to do research to remove as many assumptions as possible.
  - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 8y ago
    It applies double so to popular psychology. The key is that obviousness is often a post-hoc illusion.
thebooglebooski 8y ago
I'm confused, where does it say the sample of people with ASD is generalizable to people without ASD?

Wohlf 8y ago

My guess is that they set out to find anything specific about causes of mental health issues in people with autism, and found that it manifests basically the same as everyone else.

lugg 8y ago

I think you read too much into the summary (I did the same.) Took a while to grok it but: People with ASD have much, (much, much,) higher incidence rates of mental health problems usually stemming from loss/lack of employment viability. What this study concludes is that the supportive employment program buffers against those health issues that effect so many with ASD. Couple years old but I recall this talk being vaguely relevant. https://youtu.be/NCAErePScO0 https://youtu.be/NCAErePScO0 (Mental health info around 11:20) So yes, kind of obvious, and seemingly useless information alas we have the statistics, we have the problem, and now we know of one such solution. Non ASD would likely benefit from the employment program as well but to the same extent? Unlikely - but only because there is less room to improve.

cbhl 8y ago

As far as I can tell, "well-being" specifically refers to the 14-item version of the "Warwick-Edinburgh Mental Wellbeing Scale", which contains items like "feeling useful" and "dealing with problems well" (things that you'd expect one would rate higher if you have a job). https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/med/research/platform/wemwbs/ https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/med/research/platform/wemwbs/ You literally self-rate the fourteen items on a scale from 1 to 5: https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/med/research/platform/wemwbs/wemwbs_14_item.pdf https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/med/research/platform/wemwbs/w...

roywiggins 8y ago
but also "optimistic about the future", "energy to spare", "feeling good about myself", "interested in new things", "feeling cheerful". How many depressed people could plausibly rate themselves high on those? Having no energy, being pessimistic, not interested in anything, and feeling bad about yourself are... pretty classic symptoms of depression, though I don't know what the exact clinical requirements are.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  In the absence of a blood test that can report "you're 79% depressed, we have to rely on self-reporting. Which is error prone as the scales are highly individual. As I understand it, and someone correct me if I don't, these self-reporting scales are just a loose diagnostic indicator. They're more useful over time, especially if receiving therapy or medication, as the change in responses can be tracked.
  - roywiggins 8y ago
    Right, sure, but the study treats well-being and symptoms of depression as separate things. But if well-being is stuff like being optimistic and fulfilled, then it seems to me hardly a surprise that being optimistic and fulfilled makes you less likely to become depressed, in the same way that not being depressed today makes you less likely to be depressed tomorrow. So I'm trying to work out what this study is actually saying, other than non-depressed people (with ASD) are less likely to be depressed in the future than currently slightly-to-very depressed people.
JimboOmega 8y ago
What does it mean to score very poorly on this? My therapist uses a different questionnaire that has more negative questions like "Little interest or pleasure in doing things" or "Poor appetite or overeating". I tend to do alright on that one. However, I score over 2 on only a few of the items on the list you posted, and a lot of them are solidly 1. There's a feeling of tension, anger, and frustration I just can't shake. There's a big difference (to me anyway) in the wording between "Feeling bad about yourself – or that you are a failure or have let yourself or family down" and "I’ve been feeling good about myself" I wouldn't say that I feel like a failure (and I have nobody who cares enough to let down), but I sure haven't been feeling good either. I don't know quite how to express this doctors and mental health professionals in a way they understand, though, and this scale really kind of illustrates it for me, so I'm wondering what that means?

9wzYQbTYsAIc 8y ago

Something extremely important to keep in mind is that, with psychological studies, many things that people assume as obvious are completely wrong after a study demonstrates it and other things, that people would never guess, seem completely obvious after a study demonstrates it.

vanderZwan 8y ago
This is true for any scientific field. That's kind of the point: to do research to remove as many assumptions as possible.
- 9wzYQbTYsAIc 8y ago
  It applies double so to popular psychology. The key is that obviousness is often a post-hoc illusion.

thebooglebooski 8y ago

I'm confused, where does it say the sample of people with ASD is generalizable to people without ASD?