5 ms·

Predictors of mental health in employed adults with autism spectrum disorder

92 points by laurex 8y ago

gervase 8y ago
From an outsider's perspective, it seems like an obvious hypothesis that increased happiness is negatively correlated with depression. My question is, is this work assessing whether an existing, confirmed hypothesis (e.g. happiness counters depression) holds true for a different population, or is it assessing whether this hypothesis holds true at all [0]? The paper appears to focus entirely on ASD subjects, so this delineation was not clear to me, at least on an initial skim of the paper. Also, I feel like a more detailed treatment of hedonic and eudaimonic happiness from the perspective of ASD would have been beneficial in providing a better context to the reader. Maybe this is well-known in the domain? [0] and happens to focus on this population for access, funding, or other ancillary reasons
- roywiggins 8y ago
  From the paper, apparently this is entirely consistent with the general population: "These results are consistent with research in the general population [Teismann, Brailovskaia, et al., 2018; Teismann, Forkmann, et al., 2018; Wilhelm et al., 2010] that shows well‐being functions as a buffer or protective factor against depression."
roywiggins 8y ago
"Our findings suggest that positive well‐being may protect against symptoms of depression in people with autism." Wait, so the theory is that if you're generally happy, you're less likely to be depressed? I know that depression and sadness are very different things, and happy people get depressed, but... it sure seems like you'd expect a correlation. Not only does this seem a little bit obvious, it also doesn't seem immediately useful. And further down it notes that this is entirely consistent with research in the general population, so this result is... also totally unsurprising. Is there a reason at all to believe that this would be true for people generally but not for people with ASD?
- Wohlf 8y ago
  My guess is that they set out to find anything specific about causes of mental health issues in people with autism, and found that it manifests basically the same as everyone else.
- lugg 8y ago
  I think you read too much into the summary (I did the same.) Took a while to grok it but: People with ASD have much, (much, much,) higher incidence rates of mental health problems usually stemming from loss/lack of employment viability. What this study concludes is that the supportive employment program buffers against those health issues that effect so many with ASD. Couple years old but I recall this talk being vaguely relevant. https://youtu.be/NCAErePScO0 https://youtu.be/NCAErePScO0 (Mental health info around 11:20) So yes, kind of obvious, and seemingly useless information alas we have the statistics, we have the problem, and now we know of one such solution. Non ASD would likely benefit from the employment program as well but to the same extent? Unlikely - but only because there is less room to improve.
- cbhl 8y ago
  As far as I can tell, "well-being" specifically refers to the 14-item version of the "Warwick-Edinburgh Mental Wellbeing Scale", which contains items like "feeling useful" and "dealing with problems well" (things that you'd expect one would rate higher if you have a job). https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/med/research/platform/wemwbs/ https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/med/research/platform/wemwbs/ You literally self-rate the fourteen items on a scale from 1 to 5: https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/med/research/platform/wemwbs/wemwbs_14_item.pdf https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/med/research/platform/wemwbs/w...
  - roywiggins 8y ago
    but also "optimistic about the future", "energy to spare", "feeling good about myself", "interested in new things", "feeling cheerful". How many depressed people could plausibly rate themselves high on those? Having no energy, being pessimistic, not interested in anything, and feeling bad about yourself are... pretty classic symptoms of depression, though I don't know what the exact clinical requirements are.
jgrowl 8y ago
"We studied mental health and well‐being in newly employed adults with autism who were participating in a supported employment program." Is the study trying to show that people with autism get brought up to the general population's base-line when there is a supported employment program?
- lugg 8y ago
  Yes.
adolph 8y ago
"positive well‐being can be understood to encompass the hedonic experience of subjective happiness and life satisfaction, and the eudaimonic perspective of psychological functioning and self‐realization" I had never heard the term "eudaimonic" before and it is an interesting idea. http://positivepsychology.org.uk/the-concept-of-eudaimonic-well-being/ http://positivepsychology.org.uk/the-concept-of-eudaimonic-w...
ziont 8y ago
i think theres lot of mis self diagnoses going on right now. 99% of people who are self diagnosed ASD, are 80% more likely to self diagnose. This means that for the vast majority of engineers going around wearing their Aspergers badge are not on the autism spectrum disorder.
- madamelic 8y ago
  >99% of people who are self diagnosed ASD, are 80% more likely to self diagnose. Wouldn't "99% of self-diagnosed ASD are not" be more accurate and clear, even if the stat is a guess.
  - Zenst 8y ago
    I was self-diagnosed for years, was tested for autism as a child (age 5), was borderline and back then there was no spectrum, you was either full on autistic or not. Few years later things changed, though it wasn't until I was in my early 40's that I got a formal diagnoses for aspergers. This was mainly brought on due to numerous employment experiences and mostly the last one in which the company I worked for sent me to America to work for 3 weeks. Simple enough, though fiscally they utterly destroyed me. Chap from Canada (company base) was also over there. For me to cover expenses over there they sorted me out a pittance expense advance. Chap from Canada, had 5x that advanced! Equally my boss messed up the form, did it as salary advance and upshot was first week there I realised I was going to be paid nothing end of the month, be owed a bucket load of expenses and my rent and all my bills would bounce. Short version, boss failed to sort it out, complained to HR about me chassing him about it and my subsequent breakdown, lossed the job, home, everything. Still not recovered from that. More to the story, things like started low salary, told would get big pay rise after few month, never happened. Promoted without pay rise, did most of the work (including peers stealing credit for my work. But then, get many things that upset you in work. Recall in another company, having time off for family funeral, arraged return date and come back to work to find somebody sitting at my desk! I will say one issue that I wished I'd identified early was never to mix work with pashions. As I literally burned myself out so many time that the toll has been horrendous. Made lots of people very rich, but got taken advantage off something rotten. Had I had an earlier diagnoses, life would of been easier for sure. That I have no doubts and I'd of been in better shape today mentally. So anybody self-diagnosing - just get formally diagnosed, just to protect yourself from being abused. That said, I have found that in some area's of life, your better of not even saying you have mental health quirks. AS you end up getting patronised and somewhat ignored. I've had personal experience with the UK Police and frankly it's shocking how bad you can be treated. Still, encouraging that some companies being properly mindful about such people and with that, not just giving lip-service. Just a bit late for me alas, I'm a spent force in mid 50's now.

92 points by laurex 8y ago

From an outsider's perspective, it seems like an obvious hypothesis that increased happiness is negatively correlated with depression. My question is, is this work assessing whether an existing, confirmed hypothesis (e.g. happiness counters depression) holds true for a different population, or is it assessing whether this hypothesis holds true at all [0]? The paper appears to focus entirely on ASD subjects, so this delineation was not clear to me, at least on an initial skim of the paper. Also, I feel like a more detailed treatment of hedonic and eudaimonic happiness from the perspective of ASD would have been beneficial in providing a better context to the reader. Maybe this is well-known in the domain? [0] and happens to focus on this population for access, funding, or other ancillary reasons

roywiggins 8y ago
From the paper, apparently this is entirely consistent with the general population: "These results are consistent with research in the general population [Teismann, Brailovskaia, et al., 2018; Teismann, Forkmann, et al., 2018; Wilhelm et al., 2010] that shows well‐being functions as a buffer or protective factor against depression."

roywiggins 8y ago

"Our findings suggest that positive well‐being may protect against symptoms of depression in people with autism." Wait, so the theory is that if you're generally happy, you're less likely to be depressed? I know that depression and sadness are very different things, and happy people get depressed, but... it sure seems like you'd expect a correlation. Not only does this seem a little bit obvious, it also doesn't seem immediately useful. And further down it notes that this is entirely consistent with research in the general population, so this result is... also totally unsurprising. Is there a reason at all to believe that this would be true for people generally but not for people with ASD?

Wohlf 8y ago
My guess is that they set out to find anything specific about causes of mental health issues in people with autism, and found that it manifests basically the same as everyone else.
lugg 8y ago
I think you read too much into the summary (I did the same.) Took a while to grok it but: People with ASD have much, (much, much,) higher incidence rates of mental health problems usually stemming from loss/lack of employment viability. What this study concludes is that the supportive employment program buffers against those health issues that effect so many with ASD. Couple years old but I recall this talk being vaguely relevant. https://youtu.be/NCAErePScO0 https://youtu.be/NCAErePScO0 (Mental health info around 11:20) So yes, kind of obvious, and seemingly useless information alas we have the statistics, we have the problem, and now we know of one such solution. Non ASD would likely benefit from the employment program as well but to the same extent? Unlikely - but only because there is less room to improve.
cbhl 8y ago
As far as I can tell, "well-being" specifically refers to the 14-item version of the "Warwick-Edinburgh Mental Wellbeing Scale", which contains items like "feeling useful" and "dealing with problems well" (things that you'd expect one would rate higher if you have a job). https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/med/research/platform/wemwbs/ https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/med/research/platform/wemwbs/ You literally self-rate the fourteen items on a scale from 1 to 5: https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/med/research/platform/wemwbs/wemwbs_14_item.pdf https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/med/research/platform/wemwbs/w...
- roywiggins 8y ago
  but also "optimistic about the future", "energy to spare", "feeling good about myself", "interested in new things", "feeling cheerful". How many depressed people could plausibly rate themselves high on those? Having no energy, being pessimistic, not interested in anything, and feeling bad about yourself are... pretty classic symptoms of depression, though I don't know what the exact clinical requirements are.

jgrowl 8y ago

"We studied mental health and well‐being in newly employed adults with autism who were participating in a supported employment program." Is the study trying to show that people with autism get brought up to the general population's base-line when there is a supported employment program?

lugg 8y ago
Yes.

adolph 8y ago

"positive well‐being can be understood to encompass the hedonic experience of subjective happiness and life satisfaction, and the eudaimonic perspective of psychological functioning and self‐realization" I had never heard the term "eudaimonic" before and it is an interesting idea. http://positivepsychology.org.uk/the-concept-of-eudaimonic-well-being/ http://positivepsychology.org.uk/the-concept-of-eudaimonic-w...

ziont 8y ago

i think theres lot of mis self diagnoses going on right now. 99% of people who are self diagnosed ASD, are 80% more likely to self diagnose. This means that for the vast majority of engineers going around wearing their Aspergers badge are not on the autism spectrum disorder.

madamelic 8y ago
>99% of people who are self diagnosed ASD, are 80% more likely to self diagnose. Wouldn't "99% of self-diagnosed ASD are not" be more accurate and clear, even if the stat is a guess.
- Zenst 8y ago
  I was self-diagnosed for years, was tested for autism as a child (age 5), was borderline and back then there was no spectrum, you was either full on autistic or not. Few years later things changed, though it wasn't until I was in my early 40's that I got a formal diagnoses for aspergers. This was mainly brought on due to numerous employment experiences and mostly the last one in which the company I worked for sent me to America to work for 3 weeks. Simple enough, though fiscally they utterly destroyed me. Chap from Canada (company base) was also over there. For me to cover expenses over there they sorted me out a pittance expense advance. Chap from Canada, had 5x that advanced! Equally my boss messed up the form, did it as salary advance and upshot was first week there I realised I was going to be paid nothing end of the month, be owed a bucket load of expenses and my rent and all my bills would bounce. Short version, boss failed to sort it out, complained to HR about me chassing him about it and my subsequent breakdown, lossed the job, home, everything. Still not recovered from that. More to the story, things like started low salary, told would get big pay rise after few month, never happened. Promoted without pay rise, did most of the work (including peers stealing credit for my work. But then, get many things that upset you in work. Recall in another company, having time off for family funeral, arraged return date and come back to work to find somebody sitting at my desk! I will say one issue that I wished I'd identified early was never to mix work with pashions. As I literally burned myself out so many time that the toll has been horrendous. Made lots of people very rich, but got taken advantage off something rotten. Had I had an earlier diagnoses, life would of been easier for sure. That I have no doubts and I'd of been in better shape today mentally. So anybody self-diagnosing - just get formally diagnosed, just to protect yourself from being abused. That said, I have found that in some area's of life, your better of not even saying you have mental health quirks. AS you end up getting patronised and somewhat ignored. I've had personal experience with the UK Police and frankly it's shocking how bad you can be treated. Still, encouraging that some companies being properly mindful about such people and with that, not just giving lip-service. Just a bit late for me alas, I'm a spent force in mid 50's now.