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The problem is full process management, and in that regard, upstart was pretty much still just scripts. I will say this, systemd tries to solve the problem of t

The problem is full process management, and in that regard, upstart was pretty much still just scripts. I will say this, systemd tries to solve the problem of tracking all children/grandchildren which is difficult to do with sysvinit or scripts by themselves. Systemd also solves the problem of unified ways to start services across many distributions. Packaging things is easier. I don't like the systemd ini target format and wish something else had won out instead. With something like upstart, in theory you could rewrite the upstart daemon and use the same scripts, since the format/standard was much simpler. I feel like there must have been a lot of bullying to get systemd across so many systems. It just seems weird to see so many major distros all decide to accept something so complex if it wasn't for Redhat cramming it into everything they maintained and helped fund.

JoshTriplett 8y ago
> systemd tries to solve the problem of tracking all children/grandchildren which is difficult to do with sysvinit or scripts by themselves. > Systemd also solves the problem of unified ways to start services across many distributions. Packaging things is easier. > It just seems weird to see so many major distros all decide to accept something so complex You answered your own question. Distributions adopted it because it solved many problems for them.
- MrTonyD 8y ago
  You know, he didn't say that. He said Red Hat adopted a complex system that solves some problems - implying that they may have some other motivations. If anything, the point seems to be that it is a very complex and unwelcome way to solve some problems - and perhaps unworthy of Linux.
  - Tor3 8y ago
    I run Devuan on some boxes. Essentially Debian without systemd. No issues whatsoever. Completely problem free.
pas 8y ago
> I feel like there must have been a lot of bullying to get systemd across so many systems. I followed the Debian discussions when they debated init changing. It was not pretty, there was a lot of things, but I don't remember any bullying. It was simply a very long uphill battle from a sort of loose group against the majority of maintainers that wished to stop worrying about 99% of init script problems. Systemd is not perfect, never was, but it gets shit done, whereas no other project does in this regard. (A lot of people wanted to tackle some parts of what systemd does, but that was late and insufficient.) And, all in all, there is always room for a systemd2 in Rust, distros would switch to it in a heartbeat, if it would be better.

JoshTriplett 8y ago

> systemd tries to solve the problem of tracking all children/grandchildren which is difficult to do with sysvinit or scripts by themselves. > Systemd also solves the problem of unified ways to start services across many distributions. Packaging things is easier. > It just seems weird to see so many major distros all decide to accept something so complex You answered your own question. Distributions adopted it because it solved many problems for them.

MrTonyD 8y ago
You know, he didn't say that. He said Red Hat adopted a complex system that solves some problems - implying that they may have some other motivations. If anything, the point seems to be that it is a very complex and unwelcome way to solve some problems - and perhaps unworthy of Linux.
- Tor3 8y ago
  I run Devuan on some boxes. Essentially Debian without systemd. No issues whatsoever. Completely problem free.

pas 8y ago

> I feel like there must have been a lot of bullying to get systemd across so many systems. I followed the Debian discussions when they debated init changing. It was not pretty, there was a lot of things, but I don't remember any bullying. It was simply a very long uphill battle from a sort of loose group against the majority of maintainers that wished to stop worrying about 99% of init script problems. Systemd is not perfect, never was, but it gets shit done, whereas no other project does in this regard. (A lot of people wanted to tackle some parts of what systemd does, but that was late and insufficient.) And, all in all, there is always room for a systemd2 in Rust, distros would switch to it in a heartbeat, if it would be better.