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It's really simple. I and many others quite enjoy the peripheral benefits of living the world's #1 economy. We're #1 because of size and productivity per capita

It's really simple. I and many others quite enjoy the peripheral benefits of living the world's #1 economy. We're #1 because of size and productivity per capita. If another country with a larger population matched us in productivity, they would be the #1 economy and would get benefits that I and many others living in the US enjoy. One of those benefits is generally spreading democratic ideals and promoting natural rights, such as free speech, private property, etc. Any country whose values contradict those values threatens me if they become the most economically powerful country. With this in mind, it's imperative that we pull up the ladder behind us if we want to maintain the lead that protects our values. If/When China gets the lead, you can be certain that they'll pull up the ladder behind them, leaving us in a position of dependency. I don't care if some podunk country does this. I do care if a country the size of China does this because my life is better so long as I'm on the winning team. A big difference between the US and China, is that any foreigner can move to the US to contribute to and enjoy the benefits of being #1. If China becomes #1, that option won't be available in practical terms, because China is essentially a homogenous ethnostate with an almost impossibly difficult path to naturalization for those that were not born there.

bendoernberg 8y ago
> any foreigner can move to the US to contribute to and enjoy the benefits of being #1 This is not true. There's, at a minimum, hundreds of millions of people who'd like to move here and can't.
- malandrew 8y ago
  I had no problem moving here. I've compared both countries and it's orders of magnitudes easier to move to the US and becoming a permanent resident or citizen in the US than China.
skh 8y ago
One of those benefits is generally spreading democratic ideals and promoting natural rights, such as free speech, private property, etc. I think your view of the last 50 years of American intervention in other countries is not based in fact. The U.S. has consistently subverted democratic principles. We’ve done this in Central America, Iran in the 1950s, Haiti, South Vietnam, South Africa, Cambodia, etc. The U.S. government frequently promotes regimes that are antithetical to the promotion of natural rights and democratic ideals. It’s fine to want the U.S. to be number 1 and to want to prevent China from becoming number 1 but one should not believe that the U.S. has been anything other than a self interested hegemon the last 50 years.
gdy 8y ago
"Any country whose values contradict those values threatens me if they become the most economically powerful country. With this in mind, it's imperative that we pull up the ladder behind us if we want to maintain the lead that protects our values." You are funny. Nobody in the rest of the world cares how you live and what values you have. At least until you begin spreading your way of live and values through bombing.
resters 8y ago
You seem to be unaware of the economic literature on trade. Without a doubt, trade barriers harm the public, regardless of which government initiated them (or reciprocates them). The rest of your post recites the American Exceptionalist narrative, which a lot of people believe in like a religion (not saying you do). But what evidence would it take to change your view? What if the main purpose of intelligence agencies was to conduct industrial espionage on behalf of US firms? What if government intervention in trade (forbidding private firms and individuals from free choice) was making the US worse off every year? What if China’s leaders are significantly more wise and judicious than our own? What if China’s people are actually more aligned with enlightenment values than most Americans? The values you mention are found only in political speeches and propaganda messages. The US is the biggest state sponsor of terrorism worldwide, the biggest threat to peace, the biggest danger to our natural resources, and the most egregious violator of human rights in many many years. Our leaders try to instill fear and skepticism about foreigners, but most Americans have much much more in common with the average Chinese person than we do with our own leaders.
- malandrew 8y ago
  I wasn't born in the US and I haven't lived my entire adult life in the US. The US, Europe, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand all can claim exceptionalism in my book due to the high quality of life they've achieved for their people, whether you were born in these countries or moved to them. I'm also not claiming the US is perfect. No country is. It's a lot better than many of the other 190 other options out there in many respects, but not all. > most Americans have much much more in common with the average Chinese person than we do with our own leaders. Completely agree. I'm not criticizing the average Chinese person and I agree that average Americans and average Chinese have a lot in common. My post wasn't about average people. It was about which leaders I trust more. I'm criticizing the leaders of China versus US leaders. I chose to live here because I trust these leaders the most, but I recognize they aren't perfect. I wouldn't mind if the other countries I listed above become #1 because I generally trust the leaders of those countries as well. I don't think it's a controversial opinion by any stretch to look at some countries and think "Gee, I sure don't want them to have global power".

bendoernberg 8y ago

> any foreigner can move to the US to contribute to and enjoy the benefits of being #1 This is not true. There's, at a minimum, hundreds of millions of people who'd like to move here and can't.

malandrew 8y ago
I had no problem moving here. I've compared both countries and it's orders of magnitudes easier to move to the US and becoming a permanent resident or citizen in the US than China.

skh 8y ago

One of those benefits is generally spreading democratic ideals and promoting natural rights, such as free speech, private property, etc. I think your view of the last 50 years of American intervention in other countries is not based in fact. The U.S. has consistently subverted democratic principles. We’ve done this in Central America, Iran in the 1950s, Haiti, South Vietnam, South Africa, Cambodia, etc. The U.S. government frequently promotes regimes that are antithetical to the promotion of natural rights and democratic ideals. It’s fine to want the U.S. to be number 1 and to want to prevent China from becoming number 1 but one should not believe that the U.S. has been anything other than a self interested hegemon the last 50 years.

gdy 8y ago

"Any country whose values contradict those values threatens me if they become the most economically powerful country. With this in mind, it's imperative that we pull up the ladder behind us if we want to maintain the lead that protects our values." You are funny. Nobody in the rest of the world cares how you live and what values you have. At least until you begin spreading your way of live and values through bombing.

resters 8y ago

You seem to be unaware of the economic literature on trade. Without a doubt, trade barriers harm the public, regardless of which government initiated them (or reciprocates them). The rest of your post recites the American Exceptionalist narrative, which a lot of people believe in like a religion (not saying you do). But what evidence would it take to change your view? What if the main purpose of intelligence agencies was to conduct industrial espionage on behalf of US firms? What if government intervention in trade (forbidding private firms and individuals from free choice) was making the US worse off every year? What if China’s leaders are significantly more wise and judicious than our own? What if China’s people are actually more aligned with enlightenment values than most Americans? The values you mention are found only in political speeches and propaganda messages. The US is the biggest state sponsor of terrorism worldwide, the biggest threat to peace, the biggest danger to our natural resources, and the most egregious violator of human rights in many many years. Our leaders try to instill fear and skepticism about foreigners, but most Americans have much much more in common with the average Chinese person than we do with our own leaders.

malandrew 8y ago
I wasn't born in the US and I haven't lived my entire adult life in the US. The US, Europe, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand all can claim exceptionalism in my book due to the high quality of life they've achieved for their people, whether you were born in these countries or moved to them. I'm also not claiming the US is perfect. No country is. It's a lot better than many of the other 190 other options out there in many respects, but not all. > most Americans have much much more in common with the average Chinese person than we do with our own leaders. Completely agree. I'm not criticizing the average Chinese person and I agree that average Americans and average Chinese have a lot in common. My post wasn't about average people. It was about which leaders I trust more. I'm criticizing the leaders of China versus US leaders. I chose to live here because I trust these leaders the most, but I recognize they aren't perfect. I wouldn't mind if the other countries I listed above become #1 because I generally trust the leaders of those countries as well. I don't think it's a controversial opinion by any stretch to look at some countries and think "Gee, I sure don't want them to have global power".