4 ms·

It's due to the sheer size of the city (it's the largest metropolitan region in the US by area). The "last mile" problem now turns into last 3-4 miles (or more!

It's due to the sheer size of the city (it's the largest metropolitan region in the US by area). The "last mile" problem now turns into last 3-4 miles (or more!) often necessitating a vehicle of some sort.

Gys 8y ago
Busstops are generally planned in a number per so many people. Not in a number per city, regardless the size of it.
- tmh79 8y ago
  many of these "bus stops" are BRT (bus rapid transit), which uses dedicated infrastructure like grade separated bus only lanes. Its more like a subway that doesn't have rails and uses busses instead of train cars.
nkantar 8y ago
This is pretty much spot on. I live in LA and am an avid driver, motorcyclist, and bicyclist. I'm also a huge proponent of public transport, and use it whenever I can. That last bit is often a bummer; it's very rare that I truly can use public transport to get to where I'm going. The nearest train station is a 15-minute walk from my apartment. That gets me onto a pretty good train system that can take me to Santa Monica and Downtown Los Angeles on one train, but not many other places. Changing trains adds time, and then they also go to a limited number of places. Buses are a bit all over the place, and victimized by the very traffic I try to avoid by using public transport. My current office is about 9 miles from my apartment (Mar Vista to West Hollywood). This translates into 35 minutes by car, 20–25 minutes by motorcycle, and 1 hour and 20 minutes by public transit, involving at least two different methods. It would be a great 1-hour bicycle ride if I could shower at work. I start a new job in a few weeks, and that office will be only 4 miles from my apartment. This should translate into 12 minutes by car, 10 minutes by motorcycle, and 40 minutes by public transit. It might also be a relatively sweat-free (low-sweat?) 25-minute bicycle ride. Most people aren't as fortunate as I am.
- photojosh 8y ago
  If sweating is the primary thing keeping you from riding: get an eBike.
  - nkantar 8y ago
    Sweating is the primary thing keeping me from riding to work. I solved that with a motorcycle, which does many things an eBike wouldn't. Riding a purely-manual bicycle would be awesome because of the exercise, something an eBike wouldn't provide.
    - photojosh 8y ago
      Yep sorry, thought that the ride to work was assumed. You can always turn off the assist so you get exercise on the way home, but don't sweat on the way there? I've commuted via bike for 4 years now - 6mi with a big hill each way. Started on an ebike but moved to nonmotorised pretty quickly.
      - nkantar 8y ago
        I guess the split (on there, off home) would kinda work, but it seems like half measure when I already have a road bicycle for serious rides and a motorcycle to get around the city.
- semi-extrinsic 8y ago
  9 miles you could run in a little over an hour, by bicycle it should be more like 35 minutes, no? (Assuming it's not too hilly.)
  - baroffoos 8y ago
    I'm a fairly fit person and I am not going to run for an hour twice a day. 30 minutes by bike is fine but if I am gonna get on my bike I might as well go all the way to work which is what I do. Public transport is just no use to me until I move somewhere with better access.
chrisseaton 8y ago
That doesn't make any sense. LA is dense. The suburban areas from satellite look like wall-to-wall housing for tens of miles in all directions. How can that not be enough to support a bus-stop every half-mile? How can my little town in the UK support a bus depot but a small area of LA cannot?
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > LA is dense. LA is ludicrously sparse for a big city. > The suburban areas from satellite look like wall-to-wall housing for tens of miles in all directions. Yes, the suburban areas (pretty much all of LA) are often wall to wall low density (single family or small, 2-3 story apartments) housing for miles in all directions. > How can my little town in the UK support a bus depot but a small area of LA cannot? LA has bus depots, and thousands of of stops.
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    So with all of that, how does the last mile problem turn into '3-4 miles (or more!)'?
- dima55 8y ago
  It can. The people complaining are generally those that chose to live far away from transit. There are plenty of us that barely drive; we just don't complain.
- Rebelgecko 8y ago
  LA has about 10 bus stops per square mile. It looks like Metro's Google Maps API key expired but there's a nice map here[1]. Most of the gaps are uninhabited areas or cities that have their own transit systems. But just because there's 5 bus stops within a half mile of your house doesn't mean that those 5 (or more) bus lines take you to your destination. It's like a graph, as the number of bus stops increases linearly there's n^2 ways to connect them. Traveling somewhere that isn't directly North/South/East/West usually requires 1 or more transfers, and most of the bus lines are subject to the same traffic that you'd experience if you drove yourself. [1]: https://www.metro.net/interactives/gmaps/bus_routes/bus_stops/ https://www.metro.net/interactives/gmaps/bus_routes/bus_stop...

Gys 8y ago

Busstops are generally planned in a number per so many people. Not in a number per city, regardless the size of it.

tmh79 8y ago
many of these "bus stops" are BRT (bus rapid transit), which uses dedicated infrastructure like grade separated bus only lanes. Its more like a subway that doesn't have rails and uses busses instead of train cars.

nkantar 8y ago

This is pretty much spot on. I live in LA and am an avid driver, motorcyclist, and bicyclist. I'm also a huge proponent of public transport, and use it whenever I can. That last bit is often a bummer; it's very rare that I truly can use public transport to get to where I'm going. The nearest train station is a 15-minute walk from my apartment. That gets me onto a pretty good train system that can take me to Santa Monica and Downtown Los Angeles on one train, but not many other places. Changing trains adds time, and then they also go to a limited number of places. Buses are a bit all over the place, and victimized by the very traffic I try to avoid by using public transport. My current office is about 9 miles from my apartment (Mar Vista to West Hollywood). This translates into 35 minutes by car, 20–25 minutes by motorcycle, and 1 hour and 20 minutes by public transit, involving at least two different methods. It would be a great 1-hour bicycle ride if I could shower at work. I start a new job in a few weeks, and that office will be only 4 miles from my apartment. This should translate into 12 minutes by car, 10 minutes by motorcycle, and 40 minutes by public transit. It might also be a relatively sweat-free (low-sweat?) 25-minute bicycle ride. Most people aren't as fortunate as I am.

photojosh 8y ago
If sweating is the primary thing keeping you from riding: get an eBike.
- nkantar 8y ago
  Sweating is the primary thing keeping me from riding to work. I solved that with a motorcycle, which does many things an eBike wouldn't. Riding a purely-manual bicycle would be awesome because of the exercise, something an eBike wouldn't provide.
  - photojosh 8y ago
    Yep sorry, thought that the ride to work was assumed. You can always turn off the assist so you get exercise on the way home, but don't sweat on the way there? I've commuted via bike for 4 years now - 6mi with a big hill each way. Started on an ebike but moved to nonmotorised pretty quickly.
    - nkantar 8y ago
      I guess the split (on there, off home) would kinda work, but it seems like half measure when I already have a road bicycle for serious rides and a motorcycle to get around the city.
semi-extrinsic 8y ago
9 miles you could run in a little over an hour, by bicycle it should be more like 35 minutes, no? (Assuming it's not too hilly.)
- baroffoos 8y ago
  I'm a fairly fit person and I am not going to run for an hour twice a day. 30 minutes by bike is fine but if I am gonna get on my bike I might as well go all the way to work which is what I do. Public transport is just no use to me until I move somewhere with better access.

chrisseaton 8y ago

That doesn't make any sense. LA is dense. The suburban areas from satellite look like wall-to-wall housing for tens of miles in all directions. How can that not be enough to support a bus-stop every half-mile? How can my little town in the UK support a bus depot but a small area of LA cannot?

dragonwriter 8y ago
> LA is dense. LA is ludicrously sparse for a big city. > The suburban areas from satellite look like wall-to-wall housing for tens of miles in all directions. Yes, the suburban areas (pretty much all of LA) are often wall to wall low density (single family or small, 2-3 story apartments) housing for miles in all directions. > How can my little town in the UK support a bus depot but a small area of LA cannot? LA has bus depots, and thousands of of stops.
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  So with all of that, how does the last mile problem turn into '3-4 miles (or more!)'?
dima55 8y ago
It can. The people complaining are generally those that chose to live far away from transit. There are plenty of us that barely drive; we just don't complain.
Rebelgecko 8y ago
LA has about 10 bus stops per square mile. It looks like Metro's Google Maps API key expired but there's a nice map here[1]. Most of the gaps are uninhabited areas or cities that have their own transit systems. But just because there's 5 bus stops within a half mile of your house doesn't mean that those 5 (or more) bus lines take you to your destination. It's like a graph, as the number of bus stops increases linearly there's n^2 ways to connect them. Traveling somewhere that isn't directly North/South/East/West usually requires 1 or more transfers, and most of the bus lines are subject to the same traffic that you'd experience if you drove yourself. [1]: https://www.metro.net/interactives/gmaps/bus_routes/bus_stops/ https://www.metro.net/interactives/gmaps/bus_routes/bus_stop...