7 ms·

Well? Did you find any references to experiments involving psychoactive drugs?

benbreen 8y ago
Tons! Some examples show up in my dissertation, which is available here [1]. Best way to find them is to search "royal society" in the PDF. One of the more interesting examples is Robert Boyle's list of "desiderata" for future scientific discoveries which includes entries like "Potent Druggs to alter or Exalt Imagination, Waking, Memory, and other functions, and appease pain, procure innocent sleep, harmless dreams" and "Freedom from Necessity of much Sleeping exemplify’d by the Operations of Tea and what happens in Mad-Men." [1] https://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/bitstream/handle/2152/46713/BREEN-DISSERTATION-2015.pdf?sequence=1 https://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/bitstream/handle/2152/46...
- benj111 8y ago
  I find it interesting, the reference to tea, rather than coffee as a stimulant. It looks like coffee houses became a thing around this time. [1] I also like that that is basically a list of what we want from drugs today, other than curing disease. (would the concept of taking a pill to cure something have existed then???) [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/united-kingdom/england/london/articles/London-cafes-the-surprising-history-of-Londons-lost-coffeehouses/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/unite...
  - benbreen 8y ago
    Coffee houses existed at that time but coffee itself was not thought of in quite the same way as today. It wasn’t taken for granted that it was a harmless stimulant, or even a stimulant at all. The idea of taking a pill to cure a disease did exist; it would’ve been called a “specific.” Pills were handmade but were fairly common based on what I’ve seen, although cordials, electuaries, and other drinkables predominated.
    - benj111 8y ago
      Interesting, thanks. "or even a stimulant at all" Its strange that tea was thought of as a stimulant but not coffee?! I could drink 10 cups of tea, and only feel the urge to wee. That much coffee and I'd be up the wall! But then the Victorians were shooting up opiates whilst warning of the dangers of alcohol so I suppose there is a lot of 'cultural conditioning' going on there (and here).
      - thaumasiotes 8y ago
        > I could drink 10 cups of tea, and only feel the urge to wee. That much coffee and I'd be up the wall! This just looks like evidence that you don't drink tea and don't know what's in it, or that you've confused herbal tea with tea from the tea plant. Tea seems to have about half the amount of caffeine coffee does. For example, here are figures from the Mayo Clinic: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/art-20049372 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h... Coffee is more of a stimulant than tea, but tea is still very strong, so it's unsurprising that the British were aware of its effects. If you're trying to stay awake, tea will do the job.
      - n4r9 8y ago
        It depends on the quality of leaves and style of preparation. The mental stimulation you get from black tea in a modern UK cafe is mild and very different from what you'd experience from Chinese Gong Fu Cha [0], or from Russian chifir [1]. Herbal infusions, which are still referred to as tea by many Americans and Europeans, will have almost no stimulant effect. It's quite likely that Boyle first drank tea in coffeehouses, where [2]: > The whole of the day's tea would be brewed in the morning, taxed by a visiting excise officer, and then kept in barrels and reheated as necessary throughout the rest of the day. If I was a coffeehouse owner, I would brew that tea for a long time to get as concentrated a drink out of it as possible. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gongfu_tea_ceremony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gongfu_tea_ceremony [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chifir https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chifir [2] https://www.tea.co.uk/a-social-history https://www.tea.co.uk/a-social-history
- abecedarius 8y ago
  Boyle's list in full: https://blogs.royalsociety.org/history-of-science/2010/08/27/robert-boyle-list/ https://blogs.royalsociety.org/history-of-science/2010/08/27...
- hrpolice 8y ago
  Impressive knowledge displayed in the document linked. I wonder what your opinion is from a historic perspective on drug legislation. Is the war on drugs a phase we experienced like the alcohol prohibition in the 1920-1930 era or are we just getting started?
  - benbreen 8y ago
    Short answer is that, on a very long time horizon, I think drug laws probably are just a phase that will go away. But socially- or religiously-enforced policing of conduct is as old as human culture itself, so even if drugs become decriminalized, the tendency to proclaim some substances or actions "taboo" is unlikely to ever disappear. The specific actions/substances in question can change fairly quickly, however.
    - hrpolice 8y ago
      Maybe criminalizing religions would be an answer. It is fascinating how perception of drugs changes over time. Even the Dutch royal family had a cocaine manufacturing site last century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederlandsche_Coca%C3%AFnefabriek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederlandsche_Coca%C3%AFnefabr...
      - steve19 8y ago
        ... because restricting peoples freedom of association would be great revenge for restricting drug use?
        acqq 8y ago
        There are different practices on which different organized religions depend to keep the "count of the believers" steady and their influence strong which could actually be criminalized when there were enough consciousness and willingness (without disallowing individuals believers to believe). But there surely isn't enough willingness, especially not in the US where publicly "non-believing" more or less excludes you from the politics (shouldn't that be changed for the start?) and the religion organizations have the status of the... sacred cows. Looking back, there were many very good reasons why the religions were not put in the constitution.

Tons! Some examples show up in my dissertation, which is available here [1]. Best way to find them is to search "royal society" in the PDF. One of the more interesting examples is Robert Boyle's list of "desiderata" for future scientific discoveries which includes entries like "Potent Druggs to alter or Exalt Imagination, Waking, Memory, and other functions, and appease pain, procure innocent sleep, harmless dreams" and "Freedom from Necessity of much Sleeping exemplify’d by the Operations of Tea and what happens in Mad-Men." [1] https://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/bitstream/handle/2152/46713/BREEN-DISSERTATION-2015.pdf?sequence=1 https://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/bitstream/handle/2152/46...

benj111 8y ago
I find it interesting, the reference to tea, rather than coffee as a stimulant. It looks like coffee houses became a thing around this time. [1] I also like that that is basically a list of what we want from drugs today, other than curing disease. (would the concept of taking a pill to cure something have existed then???) [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/united-kingdom/england/london/articles/London-cafes-the-surprising-history-of-Londons-lost-coffeehouses/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/unite...
- benbreen 8y ago
  Coffee houses existed at that time but coffee itself was not thought of in quite the same way as today. It wasn’t taken for granted that it was a harmless stimulant, or even a stimulant at all. The idea of taking a pill to cure a disease did exist; it would’ve been called a “specific.” Pills were handmade but were fairly common based on what I’ve seen, although cordials, electuaries, and other drinkables predominated.
  - benj111 8y ago
    Interesting, thanks. "or even a stimulant at all" Its strange that tea was thought of as a stimulant but not coffee?! I could drink 10 cups of tea, and only feel the urge to wee. That much coffee and I'd be up the wall! But then the Victorians were shooting up opiates whilst warning of the dangers of alcohol so I suppose there is a lot of 'cultural conditioning' going on there (and here).
    - thaumasiotes 8y ago
      > I could drink 10 cups of tea, and only feel the urge to wee. That much coffee and I'd be up the wall! This just looks like evidence that you don't drink tea and don't know what's in it, or that you've confused herbal tea with tea from the tea plant. Tea seems to have about half the amount of caffeine coffee does. For example, here are figures from the Mayo Clinic: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/art-20049372 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h... Coffee is more of a stimulant than tea, but tea is still very strong, so it's unsurprising that the British were aware of its effects. If you're trying to stay awake, tea will do the job.
    - n4r9 8y ago
      It depends on the quality of leaves and style of preparation. The mental stimulation you get from black tea in a modern UK cafe is mild and very different from what you'd experience from Chinese Gong Fu Cha [0], or from Russian chifir [1]. Herbal infusions, which are still referred to as tea by many Americans and Europeans, will have almost no stimulant effect. It's quite likely that Boyle first drank tea in coffeehouses, where [2]: > The whole of the day's tea would be brewed in the morning, taxed by a visiting excise officer, and then kept in barrels and reheated as necessary throughout the rest of the day. If I was a coffeehouse owner, I would brew that tea for a long time to get as concentrated a drink out of it as possible. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gongfu_tea_ceremony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gongfu_tea_ceremony [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chifir https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chifir [2] https://www.tea.co.uk/a-social-history https://www.tea.co.uk/a-social-history
abecedarius 8y ago
Boyle's list in full: https://blogs.royalsociety.org/history-of-science/2010/08/27/robert-boyle-list/ https://blogs.royalsociety.org/history-of-science/2010/08/27...
hrpolice 8y ago
Impressive knowledge displayed in the document linked. I wonder what your opinion is from a historic perspective on drug legislation. Is the war on drugs a phase we experienced like the alcohol prohibition in the 1920-1930 era or are we just getting started?
- benbreen 8y ago
  Short answer is that, on a very long time horizon, I think drug laws probably are just a phase that will go away. But socially- or religiously-enforced policing of conduct is as old as human culture itself, so even if drugs become decriminalized, the tendency to proclaim some substances or actions "taboo" is unlikely to ever disappear. The specific actions/substances in question can change fairly quickly, however.
  - hrpolice 8y ago
    Maybe criminalizing religions would be an answer. It is fascinating how perception of drugs changes over time. Even the Dutch royal family had a cocaine manufacturing site last century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederlandsche_Coca%C3%AFnefabriek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederlandsche_Coca%C3%AFnefabr...
    - steve19 8y ago
      ... because restricting peoples freedom of association would be great revenge for restricting drug use?
      - acqq 8y ago
        There are different practices on which different organized religions depend to keep the "count of the believers" steady and their influence strong which could actually be criminalized when there were enough consciousness and willingness (without disallowing individuals believers to believe). But there surely isn't enough willingness, especially not in the US where publicly "non-believing" more or less excludes you from the politics (shouldn't that be changed for the start?) and the religion organizations have the status of the... sacred cows. Looking back, there were many very good reasons why the religions were not put in the constitution.