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Digitized minutes of Royal Society meetings taken between 1686 and 1711
- benbreen 8y agoThis is great news. I'm a historian and have gone to the Royal Society archives to read these draft minutes in the past (I was looking for references to experiments involving psychoactive drugs on one research trip, and on another I was researching the Royal Society's run-in with the infamous impostor George Psalmanazar). Happy to answer questions about the meeting minutes or their historical significance if anyone is interested. Hans Sloane is pretty fascinating in his own right and was recently the subject of a biography: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674737334 http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674737334
- bfuller 8y agoWell? Did you find any references to experiments involving psychoactive drugs?
- benbreen 8y agoTons! Some examples show up in my dissertation, which is available here [1]. Best way to find them is to search "royal society" in the PDF. One of the more interesting examples is Robert Boyle's list of "desiderata" for future scientific discoveries which includes entries like "Potent Druggs to alter or Exalt Imagination, Waking, Memory, and other functions, and appease pain, procure innocent sleep, harmless dreams" and "Freedom from Necessity of much Sleeping exemplify’d by the Operations of Tea and what happens in Mad-Men." [1] https://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/bitstream/handle/2152/46713/BREEN-DISSERTATION-2015.pdf?sequence=1 https://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/bitstream/handle/2152/46...
- benj111 8y agoI find it interesting, the reference to tea, rather than coffee as a stimulant. It looks like coffee houses became a thing around this time. [1] I also like that that is basically a list of what we want from drugs today, other than curing disease. (would the concept of taking a pill to cure something have existed then???) [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/united-kingdom/england/london/articles/London-cafes-the-surprising-history-of-Londons-lost-coffeehouses/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/unite...
- benbreen 8y agoCoffee houses existed at that time but coffee itself was not thought of in quite the same way as today. It wasn’t taken for granted that it was a harmless stimulant, or even a stimulant at all. The idea of taking a pill to cure a disease did exist; it would’ve been called a “specific.” Pills were handmade but were fairly common based on what I’ve seen, although cordials, electuaries, and other drinkables predominated.
- benj111 8y agoInteresting, thanks. "or even a stimulant at all" Its strange that tea was thought of as a stimulant but not coffee?! I could drink 10 cups of tea, and only feel the urge to wee. That much coffee and I'd be up the wall! But then the Victorians were shooting up opiates whilst warning of the dangers of alcohol so I suppose there is a lot of 'cultural conditioning' going on there (and here).
- thaumasiotes 8y ago> I could drink 10 cups of tea, and only feel the urge to wee. That much coffee and I'd be up the wall! This just looks like evidence that you don't drink tea and don't know what's in it, or that you've confused herbal tea with tea from the tea plant. Tea seems to have about half the amount of caffeine coffee does. For example, here are figures from the Mayo Clinic: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/art-20049372 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h... Coffee is more of a stimulant than tea, but tea is still very strong, so it's unsurprising that the British were aware of its effects. If you're trying to stay awake, tea will do the job.
- n4r9 8y agoIt depends on the quality of leaves and style of preparation. The mental stimulation you get from black tea in a modern UK cafe is mild and very different from what you'd experience from Chinese Gong Fu Cha [0], or from Russian chifir [1]. Herbal infusions, which are still referred to as tea by many Americans and Europeans, will have almost no stimulant effect. It's quite likely that Boyle first drank tea in coffeehouses, where [2]: > The whole of the day's tea would be brewed in the morning, taxed by a visiting excise officer, and then kept in barrels and reheated as necessary throughout the rest of the day. If I was a coffeehouse owner, I would brew that tea for a long time to get as concentrated a drink out of it as possible. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gongfu_tea_ceremony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gongfu_tea_ceremony [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chifir https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chifir [2] https://www.tea.co.uk/a-social-history https://www.tea.co.uk/a-social-history
- abecedarius 8y agoBoyle's list in full: https://blogs.royalsociety.org/history-of-science/2010/08/27/robert-boyle-list/ https://blogs.royalsociety.org/history-of-science/2010/08/27...
- hrpolice 8y agoImpressive knowledge displayed in the document linked. I wonder what your opinion is from a historic perspective on drug legislation. Is the war on drugs a phase we experienced like the alcohol prohibition in the 1920-1930 era or are we just getting started?
- benbreen 8y agoShort answer is that, on a very long time horizon, I think drug laws probably are just a phase that will go away. But socially- or religiously-enforced policing of conduct is as old as human culture itself, so even if drugs become decriminalized, the tendency to proclaim some substances or actions "taboo" is unlikely to ever disappear. The specific actions/substances in question can change fairly quickly, however.
- hrpolice 8y agoMaybe criminalizing religions would be an answer. It is fascinating how perception of drugs changes over time. Even the Dutch royal family had a cocaine manufacturing site last century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederlandsche_Coca%C3%AFnefabriek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederlandsche_Coca%C3%AFnefabr...
- steve19 8y ago... because restricting peoples freedom of association would be great revenge for restricting drug use?
- acqq 8y agoThere are different practices on which different organized religions depend to keep the "count of the believers" steady and their influence strong which could actually be criminalized when there were enough consciousness and willingness (without disallowing individuals believers to believe). But there surely isn't enough willingness, especially not in the US where publicly "non-believing" more or less excludes you from the politics (shouldn't that be changed for the start?) and the religion organizations have the status of the... sacred cows. Looking back, there were many very good reasons why the religions were not put in the constitution.
- tamebadger 8y agoDoes any of the meeting minutes contain a reference to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottfried_Wilhelm_Leibniz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottfried_Wilhelm_Leibniz that you know of ?
- benbreen 8y agoI never looked for it, but Leibniz was a member of the RS so he almost certainly shows up. He's mentioned frequently in the Philosophical Transactions. For example here's "the Answer of Mr. Leibnitz" in response to a letter from "clarissimis viris Newtono" (the most distinguished Newton): https://books.google.com/books?id=7uwyAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA186&dq=%22philosophical+transactions%22+leibniz&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwij6NLEt5HgAhVIjFQKHZDYBfcQ6AEILTAA#v=onepage&q=%22philosophical%20transactions%22%20leibniz&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=7uwyAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA186&dq=%...
- justcorrect 8y agoFirst page of the 1707-1711 editions, I found this sentence, sure there's likely more ... "A proposall was read by Dr. Papin concerning a new invented [deleted] to be row'd with oars mov'd by heat. The farther consideration of It was also referred to ye. next meeting. A letter was read from Mr. Leibnitz concerning Mr. Papin & this new boat."
- ian0 8y agoSome context around Papin and his boat from wikipedia[1] for those interested: > In 1705 he developed a second steam engine with the help of Gottfried Leibniz, based on an invention by Thomas Savery, but this used steam pressure rather than atmospheric pressure. Details of the engine were published in 1707. > Papin returned to London in 1707, leaving his wife in Germany. Several of his papers were put before the Royal Society between 1707 and 1712 without acknowledging or paying him, about which he complained bitterly. Papin's ideas included a description of his 1690 atmospheric steam engine, similar to that built and put into use by Thomas Newcomen in 1712, thought to be the year of Papin's death. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Papin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Papin
- webaholic 8y agoIs it only me? I think I lost the ability to read cursive handwriting. I tried reading a few pages, and it is really hard for me to follow what is written.
- joshvm 8y agoThis kind of stuff is a good candidate for Zooniverse. Have a look at some of the ship log projects, for example.
- froindt 8y agoThank you for mentioning this! I'd never heard of Zooniverse, but it looks very interesting. Have you used Zooniverse in the past? If so, what was the outcome/experience like?
- joshvm 8y agoI've played with a few of the projects. It can be very addictive and often a lot of fun - for example Snapshot Serengeti where you classify camera trap photos. You get lots of nothing and then suddenly an animal. I did try the log transcription tasks but they're pretty difficult and evidently some more enthusiastic people had been there first. My research group actually has a project in beta at the moment on there: https://www.zooniverse.org/projects/rossmcwhirter/astro-ecology https://www.zooniverse.org/projects/rossmcwhirter/astro-ecol... We're asking people to tag animals in infrared images. There isn't much data on there yet while we figure out the simplest way to get people involved (feedback driven). The site engine is pretty good, it's very easy to set up your own data campaign. It's quite challenging to frame your problem in a way that people with no domain knowledge can label your data accurately. The only disadvantage (from a research perspective) is that you need exposure and traction to really succeed, because you need a huge number of classifications (multiple times per image) to get good results. If you look, there are a lot of projects with quite a lot of classifications but 0% completion. Certain categories are just popular - e.g. exoplanet detection and astronomy always gets a lot of interest.
- jandrese 8y ago
- hypochondria 8y agoIs there a version that lets you look at the pages without forcing you to use that disastrously slow Turning the Pages application? The page turning animates like a tortoise crawling through molasses under a strobe light.
- cal5k 8y ago...has anyone ever taken video of such a thing? For research purposes, of course...
- pan69 8y agoFor me the page turning itself doesn't seem to be slow but choosing this gimmicky mechanism as a delivery vehicle for this kind of content is, well, a silly choice. I can't zoom in enough and when I do zoom in I can't pan around when the page doesn't fit my browser window. Both left and right click turn the page. Aaaargh...! Whom ever is behind this, can we just have images please? Thank you.
- gerdesj 8y agoThis is absolutely fascinating. There is a handy transliteration available by clicking on the sheet of paper icon. Some bloke called Mr Hook gets around a bit in the 1680s at least: Mr Hook gave an account of the book recommended to him affirming that the Author had well determined the problem of the pressure of a body upon an enclined plain; the second part about the separation of the gall in the Liver to which he could not so readily asset Mr Hook affirmed that the manner of evacuating Damps at Leige is after the manner of the engine for consuming smoke (17 Nov 1686) At that time (~November 1686) body preservation is a pretty hot topic, interspersed with say Mr Hook Shewed to the Satisfaction of the Company the Shells in & on the Nautilus This is a window on the past that is absolutely priceless. The minutes are terse and have the feel of being hastily scribbled at times but that adds to their charm. You keep on finding gems: the Magnitudes et cet of London and Paris; - so et cet is perhaps the original abbreviation of et cetera, before the modern etc. etc is very much a feature in modern English usage and to see it in use back in the 1680s shows a pretty deep continuity within some aspects of English (yes, I know it is really Latin). Smashing.
- jetrink 8y agoI bet that was Robert Hooke[1]. They were less exacting about spelling back then. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hooke#Royal_Society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hooke#Royal_Society
- jonmc12 8y agoThe book, "The Fellowship", references these meeting minutes, along with other research from this period in time: https://www.amazon.com/Fellowship-Gilbert-Newton-Scientific-Revolution/dp/1590200268 https://www.amazon.com/Fellowship-Gilbert-Newton-Scientific-...
- beastcoast 8y agoNeal Stephenson’s Baroque Cycle also covers the Royal Society at this time in history.
- _emacsomancer_ 8y agoUnfortunately not early enough to have covered Margaret 'Mad Madge' Cavendish's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Cavendish,_Duchess_of_Newcastle-upon-Tyne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Cavendish,_Duchess_of...] attendance in 1667.
- kakkun 8y agoFor those that are interested in what else the Royal Society archives hold, I wholly recommend the Objectivity YouTube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtwKon9qMt5YLVgQt1tvJKg https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtwKon9qMt5YLVgQt1tvJKg) created by Brady Haran (of Periodic Videos, Numberphile, Computerphile, etc.)
- sohkamyung 8y agoI second that recommendation. I've watched a number of Objectivity videos and the content is amazing and fascinating for those interested in the history of science and people at the Royal Society (and occasionally other scientifically historical places).
- corey_moncure 8y agoIt looks like even the brightest scientific minds of the past forgot to increment the year after January 1. Even as late as March and April in some years.
- keithpeter 8y agoMight be using the 'official' 25th March date for new year? [1] The will probably be a 'readme' somewhere on the site about old style dates. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar#Beginning_of_the_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar#Beginning_o...
- lawlorino 8y ago> In common usage, 1 January was regarded as New Year's Day and celebrated as such,[40] but from the 12th century until 1751 the legal year in England began on 25 March (Lady Day).[41] So, for example, the Parliamentary record lists the execution of Charles I on 30 January as occurring in 1648 (as the year did not end until 24 March),[42] although later histories adjust the start of the year to 1 January and record the execution as occurring in 1649.[43] Super interesting, thanks!
- corey_moncure 8y agoToday I learned.