8 ms·

When I left AVG Technologies (now owned by Avast) I figured they would try to screw me on this. I copied a line out of the employee handbook, that I had to sign

When I left AVG Technologies (now owned by Avast) I figured they would try to screw me on this. I copied a line out of the employee handbook, that I had to sign a receipt for and acknowledge I had read, that said "All accrued unused vacation will be paid out in full on an employees termination" sent that line to HR and asked them if they would pay my vacation if I left. They replied, you work in FL which does not legally require us to pay it so no. Anyways, I showed my direct supervisor the email from HR, worked two weeks then took three weeks off. When "I got back from vacation" I turned in my notice and walked out even though the handbook said a two week notice was required... because FL is a right to work state and you do not legally have to turn in a two week notice. We each enjoyed our own groups at AVG but "Corporate" was just evil.

wu_tang_chris 8y ago
> because FL is a right to work state and you do not legally have to turn in a two week notice right to work or not, is there any state where you have to "legally" give 2 weeks notice? i don't think there is.
- baddox 8y ago
  I don’t think that right to work has anything to do with it. Perhaps the commenter meant at-will employment?
- moate 8y ago
  From the states or government: No, there is nothing. You might have something in a contract that requires it (and is actually enforceable)
  - Spoom 8y ago
    My understanding is that at-will states usually override anything in a contract stating to the contrary, unless there is an agreed-upon employment duration (that overrides at-will on both sides, i.e., they can't fire you without compensation), and this is quite rare outside of executives. Not a lawyer, do not rely on this as legal advice, etc.
    - moate 8y ago
      I mean I don't expect a lot of baseball players or CEO's to be reading my comments, but it's still possible. IANAL, but there are enforceable terms in employment contracts occasionally. I agree they're rare from my understanding of how things usually wind up shaking out.
      - ben509 8y ago
        Loads of people are singers, actors, voice actors, PR flacks etc., though. All kinds of shows and performances want to hang on to the specific person who is the "face" or voice or otherwise represents a brand.
    - hannasanarion 8y ago
      There is no such thing as an "at-will" state. At-will is the national baseline for employment, states and contracts can add additional requirements on top of it, such as mandatory notice, good-faith exeptions, implied contracts, etc.
      - moate 8y ago
        All states are "at-will" states. There is no state in the US that over-rides this, and many explicitly state it in their own labor laws. Only company contracts can modify the at-will nature of employment.
        hannasanarion 8y ago
        Yeah, company contracts can add their own restrictions on top of at-will, and so can state laws. In 42 states, you can't fire someone for acting in a way that's compliant with public policy, like for saying "I won't ship these defective airplane parts". 36 states have an "implied contract" exception, meaning that if you've informally written or said that you won't quit or fire without good reason, then you can be bound by that as if it were a contract. 11 states have "good faith" exemptions, meaning you can't fire for mean or selfish reasons, like to avoid paying retirement benefits.
otherdave 8y ago
I think you meant "employment at will"? Right-to-work refers to unions.
baddox 8y ago
Do you mean at-will employment, rather than right to work? AFAIK, right to work means that union membership/dues cannot be a requirement of employment.
hannasanarion 8y ago
> because FL is a right to work state and you do not legally have to turn in a two week notice What you're describing is called "at-will employment" and it is totally unrelated to right-to-work (which has to do with unions and collective bargaining). At-will employment is the default everywhere in the United States unless an exception is provided by law (Florida is one of a few states with no exceptions), or if the contract states otherwise. IE, At-will is the baseline, laws and contracts can add additional requirements. So, in other words, what you did was not legal, and they totally could have come after you for breach of contract, they just decided not to.
- siculars 8y ago
  If you are suggesting an employee is obliged to give two weeks notice, you are incorrect. That is not how it works in the United States. We do not have forced labor.
  - hannasanarion 8y ago
    I am suggesting that you are bound by the terms of contracts that you sign. The law says "unless you've explicitly agreed otherwise, you can end an employment relationship with no conditions". This person explicitly agreed otherwise, then reneged on their agreement, that's a breach of contract.
    - jjeaff 8y ago
      Most places give you a paycheck trailing 2 weeks anyway. So you could always quit, but I'm not sure how many states would be required to send you your check.
      - hannasanarion 8y ago
        What is required by states or not is irrelevant if you signed a contract. If the contract says "I will give two weeks notice before I leave" and you sign on the dotted line, then you need to give two weeks notice before you leave or else suffer the penalties described in the contract. You can't cite laws to get out of contractual obligations unless the contract demands you do something illegal.
jjeaff 8y ago
Good for you. Too many people don't stand up for themselves in situations like these. My grandmother had more than 125 sick days built up when she retired after 40 years of teaching elementary school. They told her that a recent change in policy would mean she would only be paid for a maximum of 30 of those days. I told her that alone would be enough to make me sick to my stomach for about 125 days (pretty much an entire school year), after which I would be ready to retire. Luckily she is at least aging gracefully and goes to the gym daily. She's been collecting that sweet defined benefit pension for 25 years and will probably get another 10 out of it at least.
- antisthenes 8y ago
  The biggest lesson here is - take more time off! I've personally had a year where I only took 8 days of vacation and I'm already regretting it a few months into the next year.
  - ryandrake 8y ago
    I’d love to know how all these people manage to accrue all this PTO! Most jobs I’ve had give you 10 days. So, after a handful of sick days, you really only have a single digit of vacation days a year. You don’t use any of these? Year after year? I don’t believe it! How do you work it so you’re not out of PTO by the end of the year? Don’t get sick and don’t take a day off?
    - boopk 8y ago
      At my company you get I believe 10 days of PTO but you can still take vacation it just won't be paid.
    - arbitrary_name 8y ago
      Are you in the us? Previously in consulting, I've always had 4 to 5 weeks off pto, plus an allowance for sick leave, bereavement, carers leave and other allowances. Along with bench time, i had almost 2 months paid off a year. Formerly based in Australia, now in the us and not looking forward to the working conditions here :( you guys get treated like slaves...
dopamean 8y ago
I once worked at a walmart florida as an associate in the store getting paid crap hourly and they paid out my vacation time when I quit. I didn't even know that was a thing at that point in my life and was shocked by the extra money. This was in 2009.
- kbenson 8y ago
  I have a feeling you're less likely to have a company try to pull something on you when it's a very large company, especially one that operates in multiple states. That's likely because there might be a state where the law is a bit more specific and clear cut and having to deal with the resulting PR disaster from a case being brought pretty quickly overshadows most the money that might have been saved. Additionally, Walmart in particular is no stranger to class-action suits brought from it's employees. Given how little Walmart pays the average employee and how profitable it is, this behavior would have a very little and well bounded guaranteed upside (saved money), but a large unknown possible downside (lawsuits, bad PR, etc). When profits are good, that risk reward ratio probably just doesn't look very worthwhile to most companies.
jshowa3 8y ago
Probably could of sued them for violating their own policy. But my guess is its better to just leave.
- paulddraper 8y ago
  Yeah, OP did the thing with zero legal costs and headaches.
Aloha 8y ago
At-will. Right to work has to do with if you have to join a union or not if your workplace has one, most states are at will employment.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

wu_tang_chris 8y ago

> because FL is a right to work state and you do not legally have to turn in a two week notice right to work or not, is there any state where you have to "legally" give 2 weeks notice? i don't think there is.

baddox 8y ago
I don’t think that right to work has anything to do with it. Perhaps the commenter meant at-will employment?
moate 8y ago
From the states or government: No, there is nothing. You might have something in a contract that requires it (and is actually enforceable)
- Spoom 8y ago
  My understanding is that at-will states usually override anything in a contract stating to the contrary, unless there is an agreed-upon employment duration (that overrides at-will on both sides, i.e., they can't fire you without compensation), and this is quite rare outside of executives. Not a lawyer, do not rely on this as legal advice, etc.
  - moate 8y ago
    I mean I don't expect a lot of baseball players or CEO's to be reading my comments, but it's still possible. IANAL, but there are enforceable terms in employment contracts occasionally. I agree they're rare from my understanding of how things usually wind up shaking out.
    - ben509 8y ago
      Loads of people are singers, actors, voice actors, PR flacks etc., though. All kinds of shows and performances want to hang on to the specific person who is the "face" or voice or otherwise represents a brand.
  - hannasanarion 8y ago
    There is no such thing as an "at-will" state. At-will is the national baseline for employment, states and contracts can add additional requirements on top of it, such as mandatory notice, good-faith exeptions, implied contracts, etc.
    - moate 8y ago
      All states are "at-will" states. There is no state in the US that over-rides this, and many explicitly state it in their own labor laws. Only company contracts can modify the at-will nature of employment.
      - hannasanarion 8y ago
        Yeah, company contracts can add their own restrictions on top of at-will, and so can state laws. In 42 states, you can't fire someone for acting in a way that's compliant with public policy, like for saying "I won't ship these defective airplane parts". 36 states have an "implied contract" exception, meaning that if you've informally written or said that you won't quit or fire without good reason, then you can be bound by that as if it were a contract. 11 states have "good faith" exemptions, meaning you can't fire for mean or selfish reasons, like to avoid paying retirement benefits.

otherdave 8y ago

I think you meant "employment at will"? Right-to-work refers to unions.

baddox 8y ago

Do you mean at-will employment, rather than right to work? AFAIK, right to work means that union membership/dues cannot be a requirement of employment.

hannasanarion 8y ago

> because FL is a right to work state and you do not legally have to turn in a two week notice What you're describing is called "at-will employment" and it is totally unrelated to right-to-work (which has to do with unions and collective bargaining). At-will employment is the default everywhere in the United States unless an exception is provided by law (Florida is one of a few states with no exceptions), or if the contract states otherwise. IE, At-will is the baseline, laws and contracts can add additional requirements. So, in other words, what you did was not legal, and they totally could have come after you for breach of contract, they just decided not to.

siculars 8y ago
If you are suggesting an employee is obliged to give two weeks notice, you are incorrect. That is not how it works in the United States. We do not have forced labor.
- hannasanarion 8y ago
  I am suggesting that you are bound by the terms of contracts that you sign. The law says "unless you've explicitly agreed otherwise, you can end an employment relationship with no conditions". This person explicitly agreed otherwise, then reneged on their agreement, that's a breach of contract.
  - jjeaff 8y ago
    Most places give you a paycheck trailing 2 weeks anyway. So you could always quit, but I'm not sure how many states would be required to send you your check.
    - hannasanarion 8y ago
      What is required by states or not is irrelevant if you signed a contract. If the contract says "I will give two weeks notice before I leave" and you sign on the dotted line, then you need to give two weeks notice before you leave or else suffer the penalties described in the contract. You can't cite laws to get out of contractual obligations unless the contract demands you do something illegal.

jjeaff 8y ago

Good for you. Too many people don't stand up for themselves in situations like these. My grandmother had more than 125 sick days built up when she retired after 40 years of teaching elementary school. They told her that a recent change in policy would mean she would only be paid for a maximum of 30 of those days. I told her that alone would be enough to make me sick to my stomach for about 125 days (pretty much an entire school year), after which I would be ready to retire. Luckily she is at least aging gracefully and goes to the gym daily. She's been collecting that sweet defined benefit pension for 25 years and will probably get another 10 out of it at least.

antisthenes 8y ago
The biggest lesson here is - take more time off! I've personally had a year where I only took 8 days of vacation and I'm already regretting it a few months into the next year.
- ryandrake 8y ago
  I’d love to know how all these people manage to accrue all this PTO! Most jobs I’ve had give you 10 days. So, after a handful of sick days, you really only have a single digit of vacation days a year. You don’t use any of these? Year after year? I don’t believe it! How do you work it so you’re not out of PTO by the end of the year? Don’t get sick and don’t take a day off?
  - boopk 8y ago
    At my company you get I believe 10 days of PTO but you can still take vacation it just won't be paid.
  - arbitrary_name 8y ago
    Are you in the us? Previously in consulting, I've always had 4 to 5 weeks off pto, plus an allowance for sick leave, bereavement, carers leave and other allowances. Along with bench time, i had almost 2 months paid off a year. Formerly based in Australia, now in the us and not looking forward to the working conditions here :( you guys get treated like slaves...

dopamean 8y ago

I once worked at a walmart florida as an associate in the store getting paid crap hourly and they paid out my vacation time when I quit. I didn't even know that was a thing at that point in my life and was shocked by the extra money. This was in 2009.

kbenson 8y ago
I have a feeling you're less likely to have a company try to pull something on you when it's a very large company, especially one that operates in multiple states. That's likely because there might be a state where the law is a bit more specific and clear cut and having to deal with the resulting PR disaster from a case being brought pretty quickly overshadows most the money that might have been saved. Additionally, Walmart in particular is no stranger to class-action suits brought from it's employees. Given how little Walmart pays the average employee and how profitable it is, this behavior would have a very little and well bounded guaranteed upside (saved money), but a large unknown possible downside (lawsuits, bad PR, etc). When profits are good, that risk reward ratio probably just doesn't look very worthwhile to most companies.

jshowa3 8y ago

Probably could of sued them for violating their own policy. But my guess is its better to just leave.

paulddraper 8y ago
Yeah, OP did the thing with zero legal costs and headaches.

Aloha 8y ago

At-will. Right to work has to do with if you have to join a union or not if your workplace has one, most states are at will employment.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]