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>look at Snowden. The guy ruined his own life and nobody still gives a damn. Was it worth it? i dont think so. If it wasn't worth it, you wouldn't know his nam

by Retra 8y ago

>look at Snowden. The guy ruined his own life and nobody still gives a damn. Was it worth it? i dont think so. If it wasn't worth it, you wouldn't know his name, and you wouldn't be talking about it today. Does that count for nothing to you?

magduf 8y ago
Whether it's "worth it" is completely subjective, and differs from person to person based on their values. You seem to value having your name remembered; i.e., you value fame, and you're projecting that onto Snowden. I don't know what Snowden values, but assuming he values fame as you do (or that the person you're responding to does) makes no sense. If the person you responded to values only financial security and a peaceful life, then he's absolutely right to say he doesn't think Snowden's actions were worth it, because to him, Snowden sacrificed all that and got nothing in return but exile in Russia. (I guess it could be worse... there's worse places to live on the planet, but Russia is a pretty lousy place to live in my book.)
- Retra 8y ago
  >You seem to value having your name remembered; i.e., you value fame, and you're projecting that onto Snowden. Total bullshit. Nothing I said implies any of this. What I value is that we can have a discussion premised on facts. Snowden is a real person who exists, and we can discuss what he did and what the consequences are. The alternative is that we discuss a hypothetical whistleblower and have all our reasoning dismissed as fear-mongering or paranoia. That is what I value. >Whether it's "worth it" is completely subjective, and differs from person to person based on their values. To be clear, it is worth it to me to have Snowden be a whistleblower because I had to pay nothing for the privilege. There are not many people who would say it is not worth it for someone else to be a whistleblower unless they think whistleblowing is inherently objectionable.
daveFNbuck 8y ago
Would you ruin your life if it guaranteed I'd know your name and mention you 6 years later as an example of someone who ruined their life without achieving anything?
- Retra 8y ago
  You're not the only one talking about him, and that very much contradicts 'not achieving anything'. In any case, your individual perspective being contrary to my claim isn't anything meaningful here, because there isn't an impactful person on this planet who hasn't had their accomplishments trivialized by somebody.
  - daveFNbuck 8y ago
    I'm not trivializing his accomplishments. You're the one who's implying he hasn't accomplished anything beyond being an example people bring up in HN comments. Would that be worth ruining your life? I'm asking for your perspective.
    - Retra 8y ago
      WTF are you reading? I said that the fact that Snowden can be used as an example is evidence of him accomplishing something. Explicitely to argue against the position that he hasn't accomplished anything. I am in no way arguing that he didn't accomplish anything more. >Would that be worth ruining your life? I'm asking for your perspective. Would what be worth ruining my life for? Obviously one doesn't make such personal sacrifices solely for personal gain, so if I'm going to ruin my life, it will be because I feel that it could very well lead to the betterment of many other lives. There's no 'perspective' there to glean. The fact that you would personally not value my sacrifice doesn't really impact that, because frankly, I don't give a shit what you think. You're just some rando with an opinion.
      - daveFNbuck 8y ago
        > I said that the fact that Snowden can be used as an example is evidence of him accomplishing something. How is it evidence of anything more than his fame? It's very counter-intuitive that being brought up as an example of an unaccomplished person is evidence of accomplishment. I don't see how that works. If you want to argue in favor of Snowden having accomplished something important, point out his accomplishments. Your argument is bad and makes it seem like he has none.

by Retra 8y ago

magduf 8y ago

Whether it's "worth it" is completely subjective, and differs from person to person based on their values. You seem to value having your name remembered; i.e., you value fame, and you're projecting that onto Snowden. I don't know what Snowden values, but assuming he values fame as you do (or that the person you're responding to does) makes no sense. If the person you responded to values only financial security and a peaceful life, then he's absolutely right to say he doesn't think Snowden's actions were worth it, because to him, Snowden sacrificed all that and got nothing in return but exile in Russia. (I guess it could be worse... there's worse places to live on the planet, but Russia is a pretty lousy place to live in my book.)

Retra 8y ago
>You seem to value having your name remembered; i.e., you value fame, and you're projecting that onto Snowden. Total bullshit. Nothing I said implies any of this. What I value is that we can have a discussion premised on facts. Snowden is a real person who exists, and we can discuss what he did and what the consequences are. The alternative is that we discuss a hypothetical whistleblower and have all our reasoning dismissed as fear-mongering or paranoia. That is what I value. >Whether it's "worth it" is completely subjective, and differs from person to person based on their values. To be clear, it is worth it to me to have Snowden be a whistleblower because I had to pay nothing for the privilege. There are not many people who would say it is not worth it for someone else to be a whistleblower unless they think whistleblowing is inherently objectionable.

daveFNbuck 8y ago

Would you ruin your life if it guaranteed I'd know your name and mention you 6 years later as an example of someone who ruined their life without achieving anything?

Retra 8y ago
You're not the only one talking about him, and that very much contradicts 'not achieving anything'. In any case, your individual perspective being contrary to my claim isn't anything meaningful here, because there isn't an impactful person on this planet who hasn't had their accomplishments trivialized by somebody.
- daveFNbuck 8y ago
  I'm not trivializing his accomplishments. You're the one who's implying he hasn't accomplished anything beyond being an example people bring up in HN comments. Would that be worth ruining your life? I'm asking for your perspective.
  - Retra 8y ago
    WTF are you reading? I said that the fact that Snowden can be used as an example is evidence of him accomplishing something. Explicitely to argue against the position that he hasn't accomplished anything. I am in no way arguing that he didn't accomplish anything more. >Would that be worth ruining your life? I'm asking for your perspective. Would what be worth ruining my life for? Obviously one doesn't make such personal sacrifices solely for personal gain, so if I'm going to ruin my life, it will be because I feel that it could very well lead to the betterment of many other lives. There's no 'perspective' there to glean. The fact that you would personally not value my sacrifice doesn't really impact that, because frankly, I don't give a shit what you think. You're just some rando with an opinion.
    - daveFNbuck 8y ago
      > I said that the fact that Snowden can be used as an example is evidence of him accomplishing something. How is it evidence of anything more than his fame? It's very counter-intuitive that being brought up as an example of an unaccomplished person is evidence of accomplishment. I don't see how that works. If you want to argue in favor of Snowden having accomplished something important, point out his accomplishments. Your argument is bad and makes it seem like he has none.