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Everyone thinks it's a national security concern. From 1980 to now, wealthy people have sold out the well-being of the US for slight increases in their persona

Everyone thinks it's a national security concern. From 1980 to now, wealthy people have sold out the well-being of the US for slight increases in their personal wealth. Historically, the solution is to kill wealthy people until they start acting better.

adrianN 8y ago
I'd assume that moving manufacturing to a country where it can be done cheaper also makes the manufactured goods cheaper and thus increases the well-being of the people buying them.
- NotAnEconomist 8y ago
  That line of thinking is why phrases such as "penny wise, pound foolish" exist. Setting your house on fire is also an "efficient" way to generate heat, unless you account for the full future reckoning, which was similarly ignored in the move of manufacturing to China.
  - adrianN 8y ago
    It's pretty hard to know what the "future reckoning" will be with the move of manufacturing to China. The situation is different from setting your house on fire to keep warm. I don't think a war between the China and the rest of the world is terribly likely and I believe globalization is overall more good than bad for humanity. Other people may of course disagree, but the issue is definitely not as clear cut as you claim.
    - tivert 8y ago
      > I don't think a war between the China and the rest of the world is terribly likely and I believe globalization is overall more good than bad for humanity. A war doesn't have to be likely for the location of supply chains to have a negative geopolitical effect. For instance: China could use the knowledge that globalization has become the US military's achilles heel to confidently take aggressive action elsewhere, knowing the US can't respond because it can't sustain a response without Chinese cooperation. In a similar vein, economic dependence limits the pressure the US and other western countries can put on China in the name of Chinese human rights.
      - brokenmachine 8y ago
        > In a similar vein, economic dependence limits the pressure the US and other western countries can put on China in the name of Chinese human rights. Serious question, what pressure does the US currently put on China in the name of Chinese human rights?
- tossaccount123 8y ago
  That was the promise to americans when we signed all these trade deals The reality is that the rich simply pocketed the labor arbitrage as profit rather than passing the savings on to consumers, they have 0 incentive not to because their is no punishment for doing so. That's why corporate profits and income inequality the highest in decades.
  - adrianN 8y ago
    That sounds like the problem is weak competition (if you're a capitalist) or a bad tax/social security system.
    - cannonedhamster 8y ago
      That would be because regulatory capture exists. When you can write the rules because you already have the money, corruption is the norm. See the US government as an example where it's legal for government officials to commit insider trading, where they have revolving doors to lobbying, and where ethics is just the name of a committee.
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
>Historically, the solution is to kill wealthy people until they start acting better. Sure, but many of the really wealthy usually manage to flee elsewhere or get on the good side of the people in charge of the killing. You wind up having to settle for killing a bunch of the middle/upper middle class. Usually you start by killing the university professors, the engineers, doctors and other middle/upper middle class people who might say things that could undermine the new regime. Then you lose a generation or two to rebuilding. All of the "successful" revolts I can think of were either a) deposing despots who used populist uprisings to seize power b) mostly autonomous territories/colonies gaining independence.
- NotAnEconomist 8y ago
  I think you're looking at a much shorter time horizon than I was. The counter-argument is that on the long term, killing a bunch of wealthy people seems to be the only mechanism that resets the behavior and norms of the wealthy.
- HillaryBriss 8y ago
  It looks like China has a huge lead over the US in the "kill wealthy people" industry: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-07-23/china-executes-14-billionaires-in-8-years-culture-news-reports https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-07-23/china-exe...

adrianN 8y ago

I'd assume that moving manufacturing to a country where it can be done cheaper also makes the manufactured goods cheaper and thus increases the well-being of the people buying them.

NotAnEconomist 8y ago
That line of thinking is why phrases such as "penny wise, pound foolish" exist. Setting your house on fire is also an "efficient" way to generate heat, unless you account for the full future reckoning, which was similarly ignored in the move of manufacturing to China.
- adrianN 8y ago
  It's pretty hard to know what the "future reckoning" will be with the move of manufacturing to China. The situation is different from setting your house on fire to keep warm. I don't think a war between the China and the rest of the world is terribly likely and I believe globalization is overall more good than bad for humanity. Other people may of course disagree, but the issue is definitely not as clear cut as you claim.
  - tivert 8y ago
    > I don't think a war between the China and the rest of the world is terribly likely and I believe globalization is overall more good than bad for humanity. A war doesn't have to be likely for the location of supply chains to have a negative geopolitical effect. For instance: China could use the knowledge that globalization has become the US military's achilles heel to confidently take aggressive action elsewhere, knowing the US can't respond because it can't sustain a response without Chinese cooperation. In a similar vein, economic dependence limits the pressure the US and other western countries can put on China in the name of Chinese human rights.
    - brokenmachine 8y ago
      > In a similar vein, economic dependence limits the pressure the US and other western countries can put on China in the name of Chinese human rights. Serious question, what pressure does the US currently put on China in the name of Chinese human rights?
tossaccount123 8y ago
That was the promise to americans when we signed all these trade deals The reality is that the rich simply pocketed the labor arbitrage as profit rather than passing the savings on to consumers, they have 0 incentive not to because their is no punishment for doing so. That's why corporate profits and income inequality the highest in decades.
- adrianN 8y ago
  That sounds like the problem is weak competition (if you're a capitalist) or a bad tax/social security system.
  - cannonedhamster 8y ago
    That would be because regulatory capture exists. When you can write the rules because you already have the money, corruption is the norm. See the US government as an example where it's legal for government officials to commit insider trading, where they have revolving doors to lobbying, and where ethics is just the name of a committee.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

>Historically, the solution is to kill wealthy people until they start acting better. Sure, but many of the really wealthy usually manage to flee elsewhere or get on the good side of the people in charge of the killing. You wind up having to settle for killing a bunch of the middle/upper middle class. Usually you start by killing the university professors, the engineers, doctors and other middle/upper middle class people who might say things that could undermine the new regime. Then you lose a generation or two to rebuilding. All of the "successful" revolts I can think of were either a) deposing despots who used populist uprisings to seize power b) mostly autonomous territories/colonies gaining independence.

NotAnEconomist 8y ago
I think you're looking at a much shorter time horizon than I was. The counter-argument is that on the long term, killing a bunch of wealthy people seems to be the only mechanism that resets the behavior and norms of the wealthy.
HillaryBriss 8y ago
It looks like China has a huge lead over the US in the "kill wealthy people" industry: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-07-23/china-executes-14-billionaires-in-8-years-culture-news-reports https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-07-23/china-exe...