5 ms·

This is an honest question I have that's tangentially related to this article (everyone on this forum is a lot smarter than I am so apologies if this is a stupi

This is an honest question I have that's tangentially related to this article (everyone on this forum is a lot smarter than I am so apologies if this is a stupid question): What is the catalyst for any action/change in regards to reversing these trends? I feel like I've been reading versions of the same article for the last 10 years with negligible change.

tinktank 8y ago
The people in power have to start representing the interests of the millennials. This will only happen when people of that generation are in power, or people in power are being influenced by them.
- pm90 8y ago
  This. One of the reasons I suspect AOC gets so much attention (apart from her very unabashed personality) is because she represents the Millenial generation, always ridiculed as being "lazy" and "coddled". Finally someone in Power who: * is a millenial and * understands millenial priorities Ironically, the policy proposals that the most outspoken Millenials embrace would actually strengthen programs that help the older generation.
  - Pocketknife 8y ago
    She is getting lots of attention because vapid socialism is in fashion right now. She doesn't really understand the job she has, or how the government works. She is just making noise that sounds good to people who don't really think about policy implications. I wish the first millenial politician was at least competent... And did not sound like her qualifications were binging the West Wing. Seriously. Her "positions" are word for word out of the West Wing.
- DataWorker 8y ago
  Millennials don’t seem to have a clue what’s in their best interest so I’m going to disagree with you. If there were any solid ideas coming from anybody in terms of helping millennials those ideas would have political traction. To think that only millennials can represent millennial interests is stupid.
  - normal_man 8y ago
    The rising popularity of socialism and distrust/hatred of capitalism among young people would indicate that they have a very clear idea of what is in their best interest.
    - Pocketknife 8y ago
      Hunger, poverty, and political violence? If we look at history, these are the outputs of socialist regimes.
  - tinktank 8y ago
    We'll have to agree to disagree. Millennial lives and issues are far removed from the current establishment to be completely alien to people in power at present. To be disingenuous enough to believe millennials don't have a clue what's in their best interest is stupid.
    - Pocketknife 8y ago
      Considering a majority of millennials support socialism, but also cannot provide a meaningful definition of the term... I don't think most have a serious position worth considering. I say this as someone lumped in this demographic whipping boy. There is plenty to be legitimately angry about too. I just don't trust this generation to come up with solutions that aren't literally "let's try real communism. This time it will work!"
      - tinktank 8y ago
        > There is plenty to be legitimately angry about too. I just don't trust this generation to come up with solutions that aren't literally "let's try real communism. This time it will work!" What makes you feel this generation would go that far? I haven't seen anything that's led me to believe they think this way, in my understanding, they are more aware of and accepting of fundamentally "socialist" concepts such as government assistance and high-taxation. That's a far cry from communism.
      - 8y ago
- loraa 8y ago
  At some point it is not realistic to expect everything should be free, you should be given the job you want and the salary you want or else you want the government to pay you the salary you want for the job you don't have. That you deserve the latest cell phone, deserve the most expensive Macbook. People mention AOC, but if you notice her followers don't seem to get reality.
jgalentine007 8y ago
In all seriousness, probably something that baby boomers can't escape - death.
- oftenwrong 8y ago
  And then the children of the dead, wealthy baby boomers will pick up where they left off.
  - notacoward 8y ago
    ...which is why we need to fix the estate tax. Large inheritances benefit only a few, often to the detriment of others. One could even argue that it doesn't benefit the few much either, because unearned wealth tends to bring its own psychological problems. I know all of the arguments against a robust estate tax, I've heard them literally hundreds of times, but I find them unconvincing. If we want to keep claiming we live in a meritocracy, the effects of an estate tax on ensuring (restoring) equal opportunity are not optional.
    - magicnubs 8y ago
      > If we want to keep claiming we live in a meritocracy, the effects of an estate tax on ensuring (restoring) equal opportunity are not optional. As of 2018 a couple can leave >$22 Million without paying any tax on it. That's enough for your children, their children and their children's children (and potentially on and on) to never have to work. Generational wealth like this is how we get and perpetuate "classes".
    - sk5t 8y ago
      You'll forgive my skepticism in thinking that the folks who would be affected by confiscatory estate taxes will simply resort to more complex structures to avoid it--trusts, corporations onshore or off-, etc. Moreover, it isn't a settled matter that high estate taxes are per se "fair." The deceased already paid taxes on all that income, why should the government again get to help itself to what's left over?
lotsofpulp 8y ago
Revolution or some other structural change like lack of resources (including labor) that shake up the power dynamics.
- kleborp 8y ago
  The extended government shutdown had me wary for this exact reason. I wonder how many more weeks it could have gone before some very serious change could have happened very quickly.
lucozade 8y ago
That's pretty straightforward in principle. What they need to do is the same as older folk i.e. vote in large numbers for their own financial interest. Politicians are fairly simple people at heart. If pandering to you will get them (re-)elected then they'll pander to you.
rchaud 8y ago
> What is the catalyst for any action/change in regards to reversing these trends? My unscientific opinion on this is that these articles will continue to appear as living standards in rich countries continues to fall due to living costs outstripping wage growth, and the outsourcing of more and more work to other countries. The wealth enjoyed by the rich world in the post-WW2 order has been built up by international cooperative agreements done to maintain peace but also generate income and build markets (Highway Bill, GI Bill, Marshall Plan, EEA trading bloc, GATT/WTO etc). These days, it feels like we are experiencing the last trickle of dividends from those days. The structure of the economy has been predominantly service-oriented economy for decades now, but now it's about doing more with fewer people. Realistically, I don't know what kinds of jobs will continue to provide middle-class salaries in the volumes that were available before. If you worked as a customer support rep, you've been offshored. If you worked as a trucker, automation is coming; you won't be fired, but you won't be driving as much and you won't get paid as much. Thousands of trucker and miners looking to 'retrain' as front-end developers is a pipe dream pushed by politicians since time immemorial. There simply aren't enough jobs in those roles.

tinktank 8y ago

The people in power have to start representing the interests of the millennials. This will only happen when people of that generation are in power, or people in power are being influenced by them.

pm90 8y ago
This. One of the reasons I suspect AOC gets so much attention (apart from her very unabashed personality) is because she represents the Millenial generation, always ridiculed as being "lazy" and "coddled". Finally someone in Power who: * is a millenial and * understands millenial priorities Ironically, the policy proposals that the most outspoken Millenials embrace would actually strengthen programs that help the older generation.
- Pocketknife 8y ago
  She is getting lots of attention because vapid socialism is in fashion right now. She doesn't really understand the job she has, or how the government works. She is just making noise that sounds good to people who don't really think about policy implications. I wish the first millenial politician was at least competent... And did not sound like her qualifications were binging the West Wing. Seriously. Her "positions" are word for word out of the West Wing.
DataWorker 8y ago
Millennials don’t seem to have a clue what’s in their best interest so I’m going to disagree with you. If there were any solid ideas coming from anybody in terms of helping millennials those ideas would have political traction. To think that only millennials can represent millennial interests is stupid.
- normal_man 8y ago
  The rising popularity of socialism and distrust/hatred of capitalism among young people would indicate that they have a very clear idea of what is in their best interest.
  - Pocketknife 8y ago
    Hunger, poverty, and political violence? If we look at history, these are the outputs of socialist regimes.
- tinktank 8y ago
  We'll have to agree to disagree. Millennial lives and issues are far removed from the current establishment to be completely alien to people in power at present. To be disingenuous enough to believe millennials don't have a clue what's in their best interest is stupid.
  - Pocketknife 8y ago
    Considering a majority of millennials support socialism, but also cannot provide a meaningful definition of the term... I don't think most have a serious position worth considering. I say this as someone lumped in this demographic whipping boy. There is plenty to be legitimately angry about too. I just don't trust this generation to come up with solutions that aren't literally "let's try real communism. This time it will work!"
    - tinktank 8y ago
      > There is plenty to be legitimately angry about too. I just don't trust this generation to come up with solutions that aren't literally "let's try real communism. This time it will work!" What makes you feel this generation would go that far? I haven't seen anything that's led me to believe they think this way, in my understanding, they are more aware of and accepting of fundamentally "socialist" concepts such as government assistance and high-taxation. That's a far cry from communism.
    - 8y ago
loraa 8y ago
At some point it is not realistic to expect everything should be free, you should be given the job you want and the salary you want or else you want the government to pay you the salary you want for the job you don't have. That you deserve the latest cell phone, deserve the most expensive Macbook. People mention AOC, but if you notice her followers don't seem to get reality.

jgalentine007 8y ago

In all seriousness, probably something that baby boomers can't escape - death.

oftenwrong 8y ago
And then the children of the dead, wealthy baby boomers will pick up where they left off.
- notacoward 8y ago
  ...which is why we need to fix the estate tax. Large inheritances benefit only a few, often to the detriment of others. One could even argue that it doesn't benefit the few much either, because unearned wealth tends to bring its own psychological problems. I know all of the arguments against a robust estate tax, I've heard them literally hundreds of times, but I find them unconvincing. If we want to keep claiming we live in a meritocracy, the effects of an estate tax on ensuring (restoring) equal opportunity are not optional.
  - magicnubs 8y ago
    > If we want to keep claiming we live in a meritocracy, the effects of an estate tax on ensuring (restoring) equal opportunity are not optional. As of 2018 a couple can leave >$22 Million without paying any tax on it. That's enough for your children, their children and their children's children (and potentially on and on) to never have to work. Generational wealth like this is how we get and perpetuate "classes".
  - sk5t 8y ago
    You'll forgive my skepticism in thinking that the folks who would be affected by confiscatory estate taxes will simply resort to more complex structures to avoid it--trusts, corporations onshore or off-, etc. Moreover, it isn't a settled matter that high estate taxes are per se "fair." The deceased already paid taxes on all that income, why should the government again get to help itself to what's left over?

lotsofpulp 8y ago

Revolution or some other structural change like lack of resources (including labor) that shake up the power dynamics.

kleborp 8y ago
The extended government shutdown had me wary for this exact reason. I wonder how many more weeks it could have gone before some very serious change could have happened very quickly.

lucozade 8y ago

That's pretty straightforward in principle. What they need to do is the same as older folk i.e. vote in large numbers for their own financial interest. Politicians are fairly simple people at heart. If pandering to you will get them (re-)elected then they'll pander to you.

rchaud 8y ago

> What is the catalyst for any action/change in regards to reversing these trends? My unscientific opinion on this is that these articles will continue to appear as living standards in rich countries continues to fall due to living costs outstripping wage growth, and the outsourcing of more and more work to other countries. The wealth enjoyed by the rich world in the post-WW2 order has been built up by international cooperative agreements done to maintain peace but also generate income and build markets (Highway Bill, GI Bill, Marshall Plan, EEA trading bloc, GATT/WTO etc). These days, it feels like we are experiencing the last trickle of dividends from those days. The structure of the economy has been predominantly service-oriented economy for decades now, but now it's about doing more with fewer people. Realistically, I don't know what kinds of jobs will continue to provide middle-class salaries in the volumes that were available before. If you worked as a customer support rep, you've been offshored. If you worked as a trucker, automation is coming; you won't be fired, but you won't be driving as much and you won't get paid as much. Thousands of trucker and miners looking to 'retrain' as front-end developers is a pipe dream pushed by politicians since time immemorial. There simply aren't enough jobs in those roles.