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Having grown up in a working class family, I find it strange that western hipsters are so taken by industrial chic architecture. It's an environment that I grew

Having grown up in a working class family, I find it strange that western hipsters are so taken by industrial chic architecture. It's an environment that I grew up hoping to escape from. But architectural styles come in and out of fashion, and yesterday's factories and warehouses are being converted into coffee shops and homes that people love and pay a premium for. In particular, the neighborhood that my parents lived and worked in is now a very expensive and trendy part of town. There's little industry left; in fact a lot of local companies are complaining that there's not enough warehouse space left to rent, because it's all being converted into lofts! Sadly my family sold out way before it became cool :( I've heard it said that it's the styles that have just recently gone out of fashion that are the least fashionable, whereas the styles that have been out of fashion for longer often make a comeback. This applies to clothes, cars, music, and architecture too. So one thing I've wondered is: if the industrial style could go from being considered ugly to being loved, is it possible that this could happen to another style of architecture/design that we all currently consider to be an eyesore? And what style would be next? It makes a lot of sense that Brutalism would be it, and maybe these Singaporeans are just ahead of the curve.

Arnt 8y ago
AFAICT it's not the style that grows loved; some things earn our affection by luck. Plus, locations change as cities grow. Where I live there's a bit of a controversy now over a chimney. It's not the first chimney to be torn down, not even the first very tall one. Another tall chimney on a similar building in the opposite direction from where I live was torn down with no protests. But this one has come to be a bit of a landmark and people don't like to see it gone, eyesore or not. I'd love to say that particularly well-planned buildings tend to earn people's affection. But I'm not sure that would be true. I am sure that location and changing technology play roles, though. What was an cheap land in 1919 may now be centrally located, and the brickwork has a patina quite different from the plain, simple, low-detail surfaces that are often built now. Timber beams and brickwork may have been a cheap way to build, but it isn't now, so the materials have changed in our eyes even as the molecules stayed the same. We're not fond of the cheap things that are used for raised floors and lowered ceilings, and so that warehouse gets a bonus for being Not The Usual Ugly. Etc.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
zimablue 8y ago
One guess in London will be young middle class people living in delapidated council houses? It sounds stupid now but what else is cheap in the centre? I was living in one a couple of years ago and they're ironically often more spacious than new=builds. Known several friends do the same. Also, will the centre shift southeast? I guess the relevant question is whether and which businesses follow the pricy housing shift. Like I can't see finance moving from old street/c wharf, but you find tech up towards Kings Cross and at the Eastern side of Old street? And tech is basically the new finance. But those business moves seem a lot smaller than the amount that young prof.s seem to shift around in a couple of decades. Edit: Another thought, this is a trend driven partly by destruction of council house stock, oligarchic money laundering, etc etc which has created extremely high prices in the centre. If that bubble pops and Brexit murders UK economy leading to a long period of price reduction, maybe young middle class people will go back to living in Kensington fancy houses/flats.
- rsynnott 8y ago
  > One guess in London will be young middle class people living in delapidated council houses? That's definitely already a thing. There are ex-council flats worth over a million in certain parts of London.
  - C1sc0cat 8y ago
    I remember discussing the ex council flats in red lion square near holbourn circus - it wont be young middle class people living there. My Boss a director (of a subsidiary of Elsevier) joked that he couldn't afford one and neither could the MD.
rsynnott 8y ago
Brutalism's pretty much always been a "love it or hate it" thing; even in its heyday a lot of people hated it. I think it's too divisive to ever solidly come back; it was never really there in the first place.
C1sc0cat 8y ago
Its Victorian industrial buildings not 60's and 70's brutalist buildings though.
- TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
  Trellick Tower is definitely a desirable address now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trellick_Tower https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trellick_Tower Likewise the Brunswick Centre. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunswick_Centre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunswick_Centre Much more popular with the middle classes than war-era estates like White City. https://municipaldreams.wordpress.com/2017/01/24/the_white_city_estate_part_two/ https://municipaldreams.wordpress.com/2017/01/24/the_white_c...
  - alistairSH 8y ago
    Some interior photos and blog entries about Trellick Tower... http://shadowsteve.blogspot.com/2013/09/inside-trellick-tower.html http://shadowsteve.blogspot.com/2013/09/inside-trellick-towe... https://www.themodernhouse.com/journal/my-modern-house-life-in-trellick-tower/ https://www.themodernhouse.com/journal/my-modern-house-life-...
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
>Having grown up in a working class family, I find it strange that western hipsters are so taken by industrial chic architecture. It's an environment that I grew up hoping to escape from. For better or worse, a lot of people in that demographic (how many obviously depends on how you word the question) want parts or all of the eastern European social system of decades past. It should come as no surprise they want the architecture associated with it.
- goto11 8y ago
  Are you saying hipsters or creative people are communist? Or are you saying working-class people are communist? Neither is even remotely true in my (anecdotal) experience. Do you have anything to back that up?
gerbilly 8y ago
> yesterday's factories and warehouses are being converted into coffee shops and homes that people love and pay a premium for. That's because in post industrial neighbourhoods, the first people to move in are artists, which need lots of cheap space. The artists then make the neighbourhood trendy and attract buyers looking for lofts. Of course the lofts condos are just an imitation of the style of 'housing' that the artist pioneers live in.[1] [1] Those lofts are definitely not glamorous. (poor insulation, drafty windows, improvised bathroom plumbing, plastic core for walls, etc...
conanbatt 8y ago
If there is objectivity to beauty, it would deem brutalism as an example of ugliness. I grew and studied around brutalist buildings and they are impersonal and humbling in the bad way: like when you visit a gothic church. Particularly because of the visible aesthetic decay of its materials. I love hating brutalism though.
- jcranmer 8y ago
  Brutalism can be beautiful. The Washington, D.C. Metro system's coffer vaults is generally ranked highly in terms of aesthetically pleasing designs, and is also a prime example of brutalism.
  - conanbatt 8y ago
    I dont know about that...when I went into that, it felt very dystopian futurist, kind of what the world would look like if the Berlin wall never fell and communism survived. Gloomy and grey.
  - improbable22 8y ago
    I'm surprised people think it brutalist. I took those tiled ceilings to be a classical reference -- the pantheon in tube shape.
    - tptacek 8y ago
      There are other brutalist buildings with classical flourishes; the calling card of brutalism is just exposed raw concrete.
      - improbable22 8y ago
        Do you have other examples in mind? Trying to think of some and failing...
        tptacek 8y ago
xenihn 8y ago
>yesterday's factories and warehouses are being converted into coffee shops and homes that people love and pay a premium for. Also offices for tech companies.
GavinB 8y ago
The thing about warehouses is that they have high ceilings and big windows. So people started to associate the outsides of those buildings with the bright and spacious interiors.
gwern 8y ago
I've seen it argued that hipsters and architects love Brutalism precisely because it is so ugly and hard to love, it shows off sophistication. Case in point from OP: > “The fact that people find it ugly means that it already has authenticity,” said Jonathan Poh, an architect who has an office on an upper floor. First against the wall, IMO.
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  If you have to embrace ugly things to prove your authenticity, you aren't authentic. In fact, if you do anything for the purpose of proving your authenticity, you aren't authentic. You're a wanna-be trying to cover up the fact that you're just a wanna-be.
goto11 8y ago
So what is called "creative class" in the article promptly becomes "hipsters" in the HN comment section. And yes we already have the first comment calling for killing them. > I find it strange that western hipsters are so taken by industrial chic architecture. It is pretty easy to explain. Unattractive building in low-prestige neighborhoods are cheaper. If you don't care about conventional prestige and comfort you get more bang for the buck. If you want to predict what areas becomes "cool" next, just look at where prices are going down. Explaining it all due to "fashion" is putting the cart before the horse.

Arnt 8y ago

AFAICT it's not the style that grows loved; some things earn our affection by luck. Plus, locations change as cities grow. Where I live there's a bit of a controversy now over a chimney. It's not the first chimney to be torn down, not even the first very tall one. Another tall chimney on a similar building in the opposite direction from where I live was torn down with no protests. But this one has come to be a bit of a landmark and people don't like to see it gone, eyesore or not. I'd love to say that particularly well-planned buildings tend to earn people's affection. But I'm not sure that would be true. I am sure that location and changing technology play roles, though. What was an cheap land in 1919 may now be centrally located, and the brickwork has a patina quite different from the plain, simple, low-detail surfaces that are often built now. Timber beams and brickwork may have been a cheap way to build, but it isn't now, so the materials have changed in our eyes even as the molecules stayed the same. We're not fond of the cheap things that are used for raised floors and lowered ceilings, and so that warehouse gets a bonus for being Not The Usual Ugly. Etc.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

zimablue 8y ago

One guess in London will be young middle class people living in delapidated council houses? It sounds stupid now but what else is cheap in the centre? I was living in one a couple of years ago and they're ironically often more spacious than new=builds. Known several friends do the same. Also, will the centre shift southeast? I guess the relevant question is whether and which businesses follow the pricy housing shift. Like I can't see finance moving from old street/c wharf, but you find tech up towards Kings Cross and at the Eastern side of Old street? And tech is basically the new finance. But those business moves seem a lot smaller than the amount that young prof.s seem to shift around in a couple of decades. Edit: Another thought, this is a trend driven partly by destruction of council house stock, oligarchic money laundering, etc etc which has created extremely high prices in the centre. If that bubble pops and Brexit murders UK economy leading to a long period of price reduction, maybe young middle class people will go back to living in Kensington fancy houses/flats.

rsynnott 8y ago
> One guess in London will be young middle class people living in delapidated council houses? That's definitely already a thing. There are ex-council flats worth over a million in certain parts of London.
- C1sc0cat 8y ago
  I remember discussing the ex council flats in red lion square near holbourn circus - it wont be young middle class people living there. My Boss a director (of a subsidiary of Elsevier) joked that he couldn't afford one and neither could the MD.

rsynnott 8y ago

Brutalism's pretty much always been a "love it or hate it" thing; even in its heyday a lot of people hated it. I think it's too divisive to ever solidly come back; it was never really there in the first place.

C1sc0cat 8y ago

Its Victorian industrial buildings not 60's and 70's brutalist buildings though.

TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
Trellick Tower is definitely a desirable address now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trellick_Tower https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trellick_Tower Likewise the Brunswick Centre. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunswick_Centre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunswick_Centre Much more popular with the middle classes than war-era estates like White City. https://municipaldreams.wordpress.com/2017/01/24/the_white_city_estate_part_two/ https://municipaldreams.wordpress.com/2017/01/24/the_white_c...
- alistairSH 8y ago
  Some interior photos and blog entries about Trellick Tower... http://shadowsteve.blogspot.com/2013/09/inside-trellick-tower.html http://shadowsteve.blogspot.com/2013/09/inside-trellick-towe... https://www.themodernhouse.com/journal/my-modern-house-life-in-trellick-tower/ https://www.themodernhouse.com/journal/my-modern-house-life-...

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

>Having grown up in a working class family, I find it strange that western hipsters are so taken by industrial chic architecture. It's an environment that I grew up hoping to escape from. For better or worse, a lot of people in that demographic (how many obviously depends on how you word the question) want parts or all of the eastern European social system of decades past. It should come as no surprise they want the architecture associated with it.

goto11 8y ago
Are you saying hipsters or creative people are communist? Or are you saying working-class people are communist? Neither is even remotely true in my (anecdotal) experience. Do you have anything to back that up?

gerbilly 8y ago

> yesterday's factories and warehouses are being converted into coffee shops and homes that people love and pay a premium for. That's because in post industrial neighbourhoods, the first people to move in are artists, which need lots of cheap space. The artists then make the neighbourhood trendy and attract buyers looking for lofts. Of course the lofts condos are just an imitation of the style of 'housing' that the artist pioneers live in.[1] [1] Those lofts are definitely not glamorous. (poor insulation, drafty windows, improvised bathroom plumbing, plastic core for walls, etc...

conanbatt 8y ago

If there is objectivity to beauty, it would deem brutalism as an example of ugliness. I grew and studied around brutalist buildings and they are impersonal and humbling in the bad way: like when you visit a gothic church. Particularly because of the visible aesthetic decay of its materials. I love hating brutalism though.

jcranmer 8y ago
Brutalism can be beautiful. The Washington, D.C. Metro system's coffer vaults is generally ranked highly in terms of aesthetically pleasing designs, and is also a prime example of brutalism.
- conanbatt 8y ago
  I dont know about that...when I went into that, it felt very dystopian futurist, kind of what the world would look like if the Berlin wall never fell and communism survived. Gloomy and grey.
- improbable22 8y ago
  I'm surprised people think it brutalist. I took those tiled ceilings to be a classical reference -- the pantheon in tube shape.
  - tptacek 8y ago
    There are other brutalist buildings with classical flourishes; the calling card of brutalism is just exposed raw concrete.
    - improbable22 8y ago
      Do you have other examples in mind? Trying to think of some and failing...
      - tptacek 8y ago

xenihn 8y ago

>yesterday's factories and warehouses are being converted into coffee shops and homes that people love and pay a premium for. Also offices for tech companies.

GavinB 8y ago

The thing about warehouses is that they have high ceilings and big windows. So people started to associate the outsides of those buildings with the bright and spacious interiors.

gwern 8y ago

I've seen it argued that hipsters and architects love Brutalism precisely because it is so ugly and hard to love, it shows off sophistication. Case in point from OP: > “The fact that people find it ugly means that it already has authenticity,” said Jonathan Poh, an architect who has an office on an upper floor. First against the wall, IMO.

AnimalMuppet 8y ago
If you have to embrace ugly things to prove your authenticity, you aren't authentic. In fact, if you do anything for the purpose of proving your authenticity, you aren't authentic. You're a wanna-be trying to cover up the fact that you're just a wanna-be.

goto11 8y ago

So what is called "creative class" in the article promptly becomes "hipsters" in the HN comment section. And yes we already have the first comment calling for killing them. > I find it strange that western hipsters are so taken by industrial chic architecture. It is pretty easy to explain. Unattractive building in low-prestige neighborhoods are cheaper. If you don't care about conventional prestige and comfort you get more bang for the buck. If you want to predict what areas becomes "cool" next, just look at where prices are going down. Explaining it all due to "fashion" is putting the cart before the horse.