5 ms·

I find it sad that this would never happen in the US. There is so much red tape to cut through, construction projects of just simple diners takes months. Gett

by TGJ 16y ago

I find it sad that this would never happen in the US. There is so much red tape to cut through, construction projects of just simple diners takes months. Getting small cites to act and do inspections takes planning since they rarely act with any sense of urgency plus the amount of inspections needed at every step of the project.

ataggart 16y ago
Related: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQscE3Xed64 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQscE3Xed64
electromagnetic 16y ago
I'd like to note that the foundation had already been laid. Considering the foundation work is largely the longest process in the building anyway, I don't see a 6-day building time as an improvement when you've still got to wait a month or more for the foundation to be laid and cured, then you really haven't advanced much. Considering that they used 6 cranes and crews working throughout the night, this was still a 18-day regular construction for 8-hour work days. Assuming the 6 cranes were performing equally and to their max this would have been 108-days of construction using a regular Western crew with 1 crane. Roughly a total 30-week construction - sounds about typical to me for non-prefabricated construction, if not rather slow in man-hour comparison and we're talking opposed to unionized labor which is possibly the slowest construction workforce in existence.
- jeffreyg 16y ago
  > unionized labor which is possibly the slowest construction workforce in existence. Any references for this statement? I have quite a few union friends who bust their asses 6 days a week doing construction, and would be kicked off their projects if they didn't..
  - ghshephard 16y ago
    One reference indicating greater speed for union labor (typically higher skilled, but more expensive per hour): http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-232X.1988.tb01003.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-232X.1988.... Reference: "This study examines the impact of unions on efficiency in retail construction in the late seventies. Square footage put in place per hour is 51 per cent greater for union than nonunion contractors. The study finds no difference in mean cost per square foot and offers mixed econometric evidence on Tran slog cost functions. There is also no difference in profit rates or prices between union and nonunion contractors."
    - presidentender 16y ago
      What if we correct for union membership and just look at skill level?
      - michaelchisari 16y ago
        I don't know if they can be decoupled. One of the biggest improvements unions made is the apprenticeship requirement, which prevents businesses from hiring unskilled labor for skilled work at well below market rates.
        eru 16y ago
        Isn't the market rate defined as whatever you can get away with on the market? (Or do you mean, they hire unskilled labour below the market rate of skilled labour?)
- ghshephard 16y ago
  I'm honestly curious, and not being critical here - How do you get 30 week construction from 108 days? Is a construction week 4 days? Also, you do have to admit, that there are some inefficiencies involved in running shifts back-back, and using multiple cranes. And the Project Plan and Management on this development must have been 10x what you would have seen in a typical six-nine month building project.
  - electromagnetic 16y ago
    Ground prep, foundation laying and curing take around 2 months usually. Sorry, I meant to add that, but I guess it passed my mind. If you don't let the concrete foundation cure before building on it, it will literally crumble. My point was that in total, I don't think you gained any man-hours at all, but would incur an insane cost. Running 6 cranes wouldn't necessarily demand inefficiencies (although in reality I'd expect a lot). If you assigned an area to each crane and movement zones, you could probably get away with minimal time losses, however for tying the structure together you could never get more than a level ahead of the other cranes.
- elai 16y ago
  Many of the parts were prefabricated.
  - electromagnetic 16y ago
    That was part of my point. Prefab parts, but they weren't ridiculously faster than a western crew using regular methods.
vb6 16y ago
There was a time when America was noted for record breaking achievements like this, Chicago towards the end of the 19th century springs to mind. They weren't too bothered back then about worker safety and the like, much like China today
- dorianj 16y ago
  The video claims there were no injuries in this project, though there's no way to tell how veracious that claim is.
  - DisposaBoy 16y ago
    I guess that's a little like saying: i jumped off a cliff into the sea and didn't get hurt, countless people do and don't get hurt. At the same time though, there's a great risk of me hitting something on the way down if it's very windy or me drowning because I landed awkwardly in the water(I've experinced this one jumping from about 10ft as a child).
davidw 16y ago
If you look at this, the US actually ranks better than China in terms of 'construction permits': http://www.doingbusiness.org/ http://www.doingbusiness.org/

by TGJ 16y ago

ataggart 16y ago

Related: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQscE3Xed64 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQscE3Xed64

electromagnetic 16y ago

I'd like to note that the foundation had already been laid. Considering the foundation work is largely the longest process in the building anyway, I don't see a 6-day building time as an improvement when you've still got to wait a month or more for the foundation to be laid and cured, then you really haven't advanced much. Considering that they used 6 cranes and crews working throughout the night, this was still a 18-day regular construction for 8-hour work days. Assuming the 6 cranes were performing equally and to their max this would have been 108-days of construction using a regular Western crew with 1 crane. Roughly a total 30-week construction - sounds about typical to me for non-prefabricated construction, if not rather slow in man-hour comparison and we're talking opposed to unionized labor which is possibly the slowest construction workforce in existence.

jeffreyg 16y ago
> unionized labor which is possibly the slowest construction workforce in existence. Any references for this statement? I have quite a few union friends who bust their asses 6 days a week doing construction, and would be kicked off their projects if they didn't..
- ghshephard 16y ago
  One reference indicating greater speed for union labor (typically higher skilled, but more expensive per hour): http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-232X.1988.tb01003.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-232X.1988.... Reference: "This study examines the impact of unions on efficiency in retail construction in the late seventies. Square footage put in place per hour is 51 per cent greater for union than nonunion contractors. The study finds no difference in mean cost per square foot and offers mixed econometric evidence on Tran slog cost functions. There is also no difference in profit rates or prices between union and nonunion contractors."
  - presidentender 16y ago
    What if we correct for union membership and just look at skill level?
    - michaelchisari 16y ago
      I don't know if they can be decoupled. One of the biggest improvements unions made is the apprenticeship requirement, which prevents businesses from hiring unskilled labor for skilled work at well below market rates.
      - eru 16y ago
        Isn't the market rate defined as whatever you can get away with on the market? (Or do you mean, they hire unskilled labour below the market rate of skilled labour?)
ghshephard 16y ago
I'm honestly curious, and not being critical here - How do you get 30 week construction from 108 days? Is a construction week 4 days? Also, you do have to admit, that there are some inefficiencies involved in running shifts back-back, and using multiple cranes. And the Project Plan and Management on this development must have been 10x what you would have seen in a typical six-nine month building project.
- electromagnetic 16y ago
  Ground prep, foundation laying and curing take around 2 months usually. Sorry, I meant to add that, but I guess it passed my mind. If you don't let the concrete foundation cure before building on it, it will literally crumble. My point was that in total, I don't think you gained any man-hours at all, but would incur an insane cost. Running 6 cranes wouldn't necessarily demand inefficiencies (although in reality I'd expect a lot). If you assigned an area to each crane and movement zones, you could probably get away with minimal time losses, however for tying the structure together you could never get more than a level ahead of the other cranes.
elai 16y ago
Many of the parts were prefabricated.
- electromagnetic 16y ago
  That was part of my point. Prefab parts, but they weren't ridiculously faster than a western crew using regular methods.

vb6 16y ago

There was a time when America was noted for record breaking achievements like this, Chicago towards the end of the 19th century springs to mind. They weren't too bothered back then about worker safety and the like, much like China today

dorianj 16y ago
The video claims there were no injuries in this project, though there's no way to tell how veracious that claim is.
- DisposaBoy 16y ago
  I guess that's a little like saying: i jumped off a cliff into the sea and didn't get hurt, countless people do and don't get hurt. At the same time though, there's a great risk of me hitting something on the way down if it's very windy or me drowning because I landed awkwardly in the water(I've experinced this one jumping from about 10ft as a child).

davidw 16y ago

If you look at this, the US actually ranks better than China in terms of 'construction permits': http://www.doingbusiness.org/ http://www.doingbusiness.org/