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This is well researched, but unless I missed something it doesn't answer the basic question: just how many people work over 40 hours? It just kind of assumes th

This is well researched, but unless I missed something it doesn't answer the basic question: just how many people work over 40 hours? It just kind of assumes that "this is what happens". But how often? I worked for 3 years at a FAANG and only worked more than those 40 hours a week occasionally, perhaps something in the order of 10% of worked weeks. Even then it'd be 50 hours a week, tops.

ryanSrich 8y ago
I think the data is really hard to gather. I work remotely for a startup and my hours vary drastically week to week. Is checking email working? Answering a Slack message? Taking a phone call? Those things don’t feel like work to me, but I don’t think everyone feels that way. If “being available” is working then I’d say I work close to 17 hours per day. If we’re talking hands on keyboard development, management etc, it’s closer to 8.
- YjSe2GMQ 8y ago
  Totally agree. My complaint for this article would be that given how much time the author spent on the cultural story of pushing the working hours up it'd be good to first do the basics: 1) what is "work" precisely, 2) what are the current and historical measurements of "work" per week, 3) how's the situation when you sensibly break it down, for example by profession or salary or geography. Don't think it is so hard that we have to just throw hands in the air and only focus on the story part.
  - davidgay 8y ago
    In fact, someone does gather this data, though in hours per year, not per week. And, surprise(?): hours worked has been dropping since the 1970, not rising. https://data.oecd.org/chart/5skA https://data.oecd.org/chart/5skA https://data.oecd.org/emp/hours-worked.htm https://data.oecd.org/emp/hours-worked.htm to explore more.
    - dorchadas 8y ago
      It really depends on how you define work. Answering email and phone calls after hours would constitute that for me, as would being on call. But not for many, and so those things likely go unreported.
- esmi 8y ago
  I imagine those paid hourly (wages, contractors, construction, accountants, lawyers, etc.) track their work time very closely and have very precise definitions for not work, paid work and unpaid work. It’s not everyone but it should be a significant portion of the work force and I imagine some kind of conclusion can be drawn from it.
- criddell 8y ago
  > Is checking email working? Answering a Slack message? Taking a phone call? Yes, yes, and yes.
- muse900 8y ago
  Yes it should be considered work. Anything you do towards your company should be accounted as work. I also think commuting within reason should be accounted as work. Lets say 30 mins to go to work and 30 minutes to get back from work. That never happens obviously but in an ideal world it should be happening. I see some airplane crews e.g working for Ryanair 3 and a half hour flight, then go back another 3 and half hour, count an hour in between the flight for the change, and then they have to be redirected to where they live that can be another 3 and a half hour flight but its only in 5 hours from the time they get off. Its not accounted as work for them... but imagine they wouldn't be there in the first place if it wasn't for their work. Also as I posted at another comment in another similar thread, I think the world should be evolving to a 6 hours 4 days a week schedule. Our work has been way more efficient with computers and it is only getting more and more efficient. We can most definitely enjoy the advancement of humanity by adding more personal time to our schedules instead of working more. We are not at a point where we are making 1 car a day, we are at a point where there is an influx of cars in factories, an influx of flights across the globe etc. So I'd counter the title (although since 2012) with : 'Bring on 24 hour working weeks'!
  - wool_gather 8y ago
    > imagine they wouldn't be there in the first place if it wasn't for their work Indeed. Unfortunately in the U.S. we had a recent case about this issue that was decided the wrong way: Integrity Staffing Solutions v. Busk It's a class-action suit brought by warehouse workers who the warehouse puts through anti-theft screening as they leave at the end of their shifts. They wanted to be paid for this time -- sometimes close to half an hour -- since it's required by their employer. The Supreme Court ruled against them.
jdlyga 8y ago
I've worked at various programming jobs for startups and large companies for 10 years in New York, and I've never had to work more than 40 hours per week.
drdeadringer 8y ago
Before the most recent re-org, me working overtime was a simple matter of "can you today?". After the most recent re-org, it was "please get permission from the manager beforehand". Either way I could still say "yes" or "no" so I still feel in control in some way, only now it's "in control with permission" on my "yes" if the manager agrees. While I don't like playing "Timeclock Tommy" as a matter of course, having that mindset does protect my sanity.

ryanSrich 8y ago

I think the data is really hard to gather. I work remotely for a startup and my hours vary drastically week to week. Is checking email working? Answering a Slack message? Taking a phone call? Those things don’t feel like work to me, but I don’t think everyone feels that way. If “being available” is working then I’d say I work close to 17 hours per day. If we’re talking hands on keyboard development, management etc, it’s closer to 8.

YjSe2GMQ 8y ago
Totally agree. My complaint for this article would be that given how much time the author spent on the cultural story of pushing the working hours up it'd be good to first do the basics: 1) what is "work" precisely, 2) what are the current and historical measurements of "work" per week, 3) how's the situation when you sensibly break it down, for example by profession or salary or geography. Don't think it is so hard that we have to just throw hands in the air and only focus on the story part.
- davidgay 8y ago
  In fact, someone does gather this data, though in hours per year, not per week. And, surprise(?): hours worked has been dropping since the 1970, not rising. https://data.oecd.org/chart/5skA https://data.oecd.org/chart/5skA https://data.oecd.org/emp/hours-worked.htm https://data.oecd.org/emp/hours-worked.htm to explore more.
  - dorchadas 8y ago
    It really depends on how you define work. Answering email and phone calls after hours would constitute that for me, as would being on call. But not for many, and so those things likely go unreported.
esmi 8y ago
I imagine those paid hourly (wages, contractors, construction, accountants, lawyers, etc.) track their work time very closely and have very precise definitions for not work, paid work and unpaid work. It’s not everyone but it should be a significant portion of the work force and I imagine some kind of conclusion can be drawn from it.
criddell 8y ago
> Is checking email working? Answering a Slack message? Taking a phone call? Yes, yes, and yes.
muse900 8y ago
Yes it should be considered work. Anything you do towards your company should be accounted as work. I also think commuting within reason should be accounted as work. Lets say 30 mins to go to work and 30 minutes to get back from work. That never happens obviously but in an ideal world it should be happening. I see some airplane crews e.g working for Ryanair 3 and a half hour flight, then go back another 3 and half hour, count an hour in between the flight for the change, and then they have to be redirected to where they live that can be another 3 and a half hour flight but its only in 5 hours from the time they get off. Its not accounted as work for them... but imagine they wouldn't be there in the first place if it wasn't for their work. Also as I posted at another comment in another similar thread, I think the world should be evolving to a 6 hours 4 days a week schedule. Our work has been way more efficient with computers and it is only getting more and more efficient. We can most definitely enjoy the advancement of humanity by adding more personal time to our schedules instead of working more. We are not at a point where we are making 1 car a day, we are at a point where there is an influx of cars in factories, an influx of flights across the globe etc. So I'd counter the title (although since 2012) with : 'Bring on 24 hour working weeks'!
- wool_gather 8y ago
  > imagine they wouldn't be there in the first place if it wasn't for their work Indeed. Unfortunately in the U.S. we had a recent case about this issue that was decided the wrong way: Integrity Staffing Solutions v. Busk It's a class-action suit brought by warehouse workers who the warehouse puts through anti-theft screening as they leave at the end of their shifts. They wanted to be paid for this time -- sometimes close to half an hour -- since it's required by their employer. The Supreme Court ruled against them.

jdlyga 8y ago

I've worked at various programming jobs for startups and large companies for 10 years in New York, and I've never had to work more than 40 hours per week.

drdeadringer 8y ago

Before the most recent re-org, me working overtime was a simple matter of "can you today?". After the most recent re-org, it was "please get permission from the manager beforehand". Either way I could still say "yes" or "no" so I still feel in control in some way, only now it's "in control with permission" on my "yes" if the manager agrees. While I don't like playing "Timeclock Tommy" as a matter of course, having that mindset does protect my sanity.