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I'm interested in better understanding your concerns. If the DOM and JavaScript are the main sticking points, how would you feel about web apps being implement

I'm interested in better understanding your concerns. If the DOM and JavaScript are the main sticking points, how would you feel about web apps being implemented with WASM and targeting WebGL/WebGPU as the rendering target? Are you feeling more favorably towards technologies like Flutter? https://flutter.io/ https://flutter.io/

untog 8y ago
WebGL as a target would work, except that it has no accessibility affordances. That needs to be solved first.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Unfortunately accessibility affordances usually come after documentation and unit tests, so most projects only care about them when deploying into government regulated scenarios.
coldtea 8y ago
>how would you feel about web apps being implemented with WASM and targeting WebGL/WebGPU as the rendering target? In that case, what would make them "web" apps anymore, as opposed to apps running on a low-level VM and a GPU library? They'd be more like e.g. Java+OpenGL apps. Just that they launch from a web browser? All kinds of non-web technologies do that as well. >Are you feeling more favorably towards technologies like Flutter? Yes, though I'd prefer they targeted the native SDK's UI widgets.
- reichardt 8y ago
  >In that case, what would make them "web" apps anymore, as opposed to apps running on a low-level VM and a GPU library? They'd be more like e.g. Java+OpenGL apps. Just that they launch from a web browser? All kinds of non-web technologies do that as well. Yes, distribution via the browser sets apart web apps from native apps. This includes several advantages that I value very much. 1. Cross Platform: If your device runs a modern web browser than there's a high chance it will run any web app that adheres to open web standards. Browsers are unique in that regard because all major vendors make a good effort of working on and implementing the same specifications. Today almost any consumer device is able to run JavaScript. In the future this will include WASM. 2. No gate keepers: Google or Apple can stop developers from publishing an app on their platforms, but they can't stop developers from publishing a web app. To me that's a central promise of the web and severely limits corporations and nation states abilities to taking control of or censoring content.
  - aseipp 8y ago
    If you don't want to pay fees or simply think having to ask permission sucks, that's one thing. But if you think an App Store somehow is subject to the laws and power of a nation, or actor of the state, and a website is not -- well, I'm afraid I have some very bad news for you about how nation states work.

untog 8y ago

WebGL as a target would work, except that it has no accessibility affordances. That needs to be solved first.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
pjmlp 8y ago
Unfortunately accessibility affordances usually come after documentation and unit tests, so most projects only care about them when deploying into government regulated scenarios.

coldtea 8y ago

>how would you feel about web apps being implemented with WASM and targeting WebGL/WebGPU as the rendering target? In that case, what would make them "web" apps anymore, as opposed to apps running on a low-level VM and a GPU library? They'd be more like e.g. Java+OpenGL apps. Just that they launch from a web browser? All kinds of non-web technologies do that as well. >Are you feeling more favorably towards technologies like Flutter? Yes, though I'd prefer they targeted the native SDK's UI widgets.

reichardt 8y ago
>In that case, what would make them "web" apps anymore, as opposed to apps running on a low-level VM and a GPU library? They'd be more like e.g. Java+OpenGL apps. Just that they launch from a web browser? All kinds of non-web technologies do that as well. Yes, distribution via the browser sets apart web apps from native apps. This includes several advantages that I value very much. 1. Cross Platform: If your device runs a modern web browser than there's a high chance it will run any web app that adheres to open web standards. Browsers are unique in that regard because all major vendors make a good effort of working on and implementing the same specifications. Today almost any consumer device is able to run JavaScript. In the future this will include WASM. 2. No gate keepers: Google or Apple can stop developers from publishing an app on their platforms, but they can't stop developers from publishing a web app. To me that's a central promise of the web and severely limits corporations and nation states abilities to taking control of or censoring content.
- aseipp 8y ago
  If you don't want to pay fees or simply think having to ask permission sucks, that's one thing. But if you think an App Store somehow is subject to the laws and power of a nation, or actor of the state, and a website is not -- well, I'm afraid I have some very bad news for you about how nation states work.