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Again, your „data“ consists solely of political aligned think-tanks. Agora Energiewende is by no means a neutral organisation, with even proponents of green en

Again, your „data“ consists solely of political aligned think-tanks. Agora Energiewende is by no means a neutral organisation, with even proponents of green energy repeatedly criticizing agora for deliberately “making false assumptions out of unambiguous datasets”. [1] [1] “Aus zum Teil eindeutigem Datenmaterial werden falsche und zudem nicht im Einklang mit bisherigen politischen Aussagen und Zusicherungen stehende Schlüsse gezogen.” https://senertec-center-nrw-sued.de/File/MR%207b_Stellungnahme%20des%20B%20KWK%20zur%20Studie%20der%20Agora%20Energiewende%20DIE%20ROLLE%20DER.pdf https://senertec-center-nrw-sued.de/File/MR%207b_Stellungnah...

lispm 8y ago
> Again, your „data“ consists solely of political aligned think-tanks Instead of trying to understand what the study describes (which is not 'data') you attack their so-called 'political alignment'. Then you deflect it to a totally different topic. > Agora Energiewende is by no means a neutral organisation. There are no neutral organizations. The goal of the foundation is well documented. https://www.agora-energiewende.de/en/about-us/agora-energiewende/ https://www.agora-energiewende.de/en/about-us/agora-energiew... > even proponents of green energy B.KWK Bundesverband Kraft-Wärme-Kopplung e.V. are proponents of cogeneration - which is a technology independent of 'green energy' and widely used with fossil-fuel or nuclear power plants. The Bundesverband KWK is lobbying about lots of money - often for gas-powered power plants - while there was pressure from the EU to reduce/remove the special treatment by the German government.
- zeroname 8y ago
  > There are no neutral organizations. That's only fair to say, therefore you must not mind me quoting some facts highlighted by "the other side": "From the viewpoint of security of supply, so far wind power in Germany has replaced conventional power plant output of no more than 150MW. For comparison: In terms of the stability of the electricity grid in Germany, a power plant capacity of about 77,000 to 82,000 MW is required at the time of the annual peak load, which can occur usually on a late afternoon on a day in the period from November to February and is not known in advance" https://docs.wind-watch.org/VGB-Windstudie-2017-Teil-1-EN.pdf https://docs.wind-watch.org/VGB-Windstudie-2017-Teil-1-EN.pd... Your source just doesn't really deal with base load at all, even though that's the giant pink cigar-smoking elephant in the room. It can't be taken serious. It's starting with a premise ("Energiewende" is necessary) and works its way backwards, carefully avoiding to deal with the real issues. It's implying significant technological breakthroughs coming out of left field. It's all supposed to happen with taxpayer/consumer money, thrown around like candy. There's profiteering everywhere, lots of PR and lobbying, lots of moral grandstanding. In that environment, I can almost guarantee you, the money will be in the wrong hands. It won't be there when the real opportunities appear.
  - lispm 8y ago
    > carefully avoiding to deal with the real issues You can actually find zillions of studies/articles discussing this problem and proposing various scenarios. Thanks for mentioning it, but that problem is well known and widely discussed.

lispm 8y ago

> Again, your „data“ consists solely of political aligned think-tanks Instead of trying to understand what the study describes (which is not 'data') you attack their so-called 'political alignment'. Then you deflect it to a totally different topic. > Agora Energiewende is by no means a neutral organisation. There are no neutral organizations. The goal of the foundation is well documented. https://www.agora-energiewende.de/en/about-us/agora-energiewende/ https://www.agora-energiewende.de/en/about-us/agora-energiew... > even proponents of green energy B.KWK Bundesverband Kraft-Wärme-Kopplung e.V. are proponents of cogeneration - which is a technology independent of 'green energy' and widely used with fossil-fuel or nuclear power plants. The Bundesverband KWK is lobbying about lots of money - often for gas-powered power plants - while there was pressure from the EU to reduce/remove the special treatment by the German government.

zeroname 8y ago
> There are no neutral organizations. That's only fair to say, therefore you must not mind me quoting some facts highlighted by "the other side": "From the viewpoint of security of supply, so far wind power in Germany has replaced conventional power plant output of no more than 150MW. For comparison: In terms of the stability of the electricity grid in Germany, a power plant capacity of about 77,000 to 82,000 MW is required at the time of the annual peak load, which can occur usually on a late afternoon on a day in the period from November to February and is not known in advance" https://docs.wind-watch.org/VGB-Windstudie-2017-Teil-1-EN.pdf https://docs.wind-watch.org/VGB-Windstudie-2017-Teil-1-EN.pd... Your source just doesn't really deal with base load at all, even though that's the giant pink cigar-smoking elephant in the room. It can't be taken serious. It's starting with a premise ("Energiewende" is necessary) and works its way backwards, carefully avoiding to deal with the real issues. It's implying significant technological breakthroughs coming out of left field. It's all supposed to happen with taxpayer/consumer money, thrown around like candy. There's profiteering everywhere, lots of PR and lobbying, lots of moral grandstanding. In that environment, I can almost guarantee you, the money will be in the wrong hands. It won't be there when the real opportunities appear.
- lispm 8y ago
  > carefully avoiding to deal with the real issues You can actually find zillions of studies/articles discussing this problem and proposing various scenarios. Thanks for mentioning it, but that problem is well known and widely discussed.