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The exertion of control doesn’t even have to be blatant or physical. If social credit is a determining factor in an individual’s ability to function effectivel

The exertion of control doesn’t even have to be blatant or physical. If social credit is a determining factor in an individual’s ability to function effectively in society, e.g. by way of credit ratings and access to opportune employment, there’s a clear risk of increased self-censorship and conformance, thereby debilitating serious political opposition even in its infancy.

speedplane 8y ago
If this social credit or indirect influence is perfectly fair, it's not really a problem. However, it's very likely it will be unfair to some, and create tension and unrest that will lead to the same problems we have without AI.
- EGreg 8y ago
  There is no fairness in this, just a measure of distance from some perceived “ideal” by The Party. Anyone outside of that ideal, as determined by The Party in its discretion, is by design simply robbed of influence and, if they persist, resources up to and inclhding food and water. Anyone who helps them loses the same. And finally, any breakaway groups have so few resources they can be easily hunted down and re-educated.
- pimmen 8y ago
  I would argue it's unrealistic to make such a system that would be fair in the eyes of all coming generations. Imagine they implemented a social credit system in the Middle Ages and added or deducted points based on whether or not you followed the laws and norms of that era.
  - speedplane 8y ago
    > I would argue it's unrealistic to make such a system that would be fair in the eyes of all coming generations. Imagine they implemented a social credit system in the Middle Ages and added or deducted points based on whether or not you followed the laws and norms of that era. The middle ages basically had exactly that system, but the enlightenment still occurred.
est31 8y ago
Yes, what I describe above is something that would follow the social credit system. The social credit system is I think a great tool to keep the masses at bay and for their micro-management. But I think that very powerful people will mostly stay outside of it. Those are the danger #1 for any dictator. Xi right now has purged their ranks of anyone too dangerous but any avid follower can turn into someone who betrays the trust from above given the right circumstances. Part of the job of a dictator is to make sure that those circumstances are avoided for their powerful underlings e.g. by giving them acces to spoils and riches.

speedplane 8y ago

If this social credit or indirect influence is perfectly fair, it's not really a problem. However, it's very likely it will be unfair to some, and create tension and unrest that will lead to the same problems we have without AI.

EGreg 8y ago
There is no fairness in this, just a measure of distance from some perceived “ideal” by The Party. Anyone outside of that ideal, as determined by The Party in its discretion, is by design simply robbed of influence and, if they persist, resources up to and inclhding food and water. Anyone who helps them loses the same. And finally, any breakaway groups have so few resources they can be easily hunted down and re-educated.
pimmen 8y ago
I would argue it's unrealistic to make such a system that would be fair in the eyes of all coming generations. Imagine they implemented a social credit system in the Middle Ages and added or deducted points based on whether or not you followed the laws and norms of that era.
- speedplane 8y ago
  > I would argue it's unrealistic to make such a system that would be fair in the eyes of all coming generations. Imagine they implemented a social credit system in the Middle Ages and added or deducted points based on whether or not you followed the laws and norms of that era. The middle ages basically had exactly that system, but the enlightenment still occurred.

est31 8y ago

Yes, what I describe above is something that would follow the social credit system. The social credit system is I think a great tool to keep the masses at bay and for their micro-management. But I think that very powerful people will mostly stay outside of it. Those are the danger #1 for any dictator. Xi right now has purged their ranks of anyone too dangerous but any avid follower can turn into someone who betrays the trust from above given the right circumstances. Part of the job of a dictator is to make sure that those circumstances are avoided for their powerful underlings e.g. by giving them acces to spoils and riches.