7 ms·

Netflix on Android

51 points by tortilla 16y ago

waterlesscloud 16y ago
I assume this is the same reasoning for not having Netflix streaming available on Linux.
- YooLi 16y ago
  Netflix chose MSFT's Silverlight for handling PC streaming. Lack of silverlight on Linux is the problem.
  - waterlesscloud 16y ago
    Step 2 would be to ask why Silverlight is so important to them.
    - YooLi 16y ago
      Step 3 would be to ask what does Step 2 have to do with anything?
      - waterlesscloud 16y ago
        The reasons for their choice have everything to do with why they made the choice.
  - azim 16y ago
    Silverlight 2 is supported on Linux by Moonlight as of late 2009. However, the implementation is lacking support for Microsoft's PlayReady DRM.
  - naner 16y ago
    Netflix is available on Roku, GoogleTV, and the Boxee Box which all run Linux kernels. Lack of DRM is the problem. I believe the interface is authored on top of Qt and DRM is handled by special hardware in these devices.
- RK 16y ago
  Of course Roku runs Linux.
nkurz 16y ago
Could someone who understands the technical issues explain the details better? While perfect security is of course impossible, I would think that a 'secure' flash player could basically be grabbed off-the-shelf. And I haven't really thought about it, but I don't understand why a native app would be that hard. I presume the goal is just to make it difficult to record the movies to disk?
- mattparcher 16y ago
  I agree. Clarification would be especially appreciated for: The hurdle has been the lack of a generic and complete platform security and content protection mechanism available for Android. The same security issues that have led to piracy concerns on the Android platform have made it difficult for us to secure a common Digital Rights Management (DRM) system on these devices.
- nutjob123 16y ago
  Are they only willing to use copy protection designed by the makers of the operating system they are using? I'm just speculating but this seems to be the case for ps3, xbox, wii, mac, pc, ipad.
  - mortenjorck 16y ago
    I never thought about it like that, but now that you mention it, it does seem a likely pattern. It's especially plausible because it frees Netflix from responsibility for content protection systems across platforms -- if one of the targets is compromised, the studios have to deal with the hardware vendor, not Netflix.
    - doron 16y ago
      Android hack development has reached a point where replacing the manufacturer OS with a custom version built by hackers has become completely trivial on some leading models. not only do I see more and more nontechnical users carrying android phones, but an increasing number of them carry rooted and custom OS builds. The office manager at my workplace found her Verizon stock OS slow,and prone to occasional crashes in trying to understand why, she stumbled about (google search)a howto article on replacing the OS in two clicks (using unrevoked, adding a zip file to your phone, and clicking some key combination), having done so, happy and empowered by the change she performed, she instructs other nontech how to own (!!!) their handsets. The point of this story is that: 1. This is probably the intention behind why google allowed this to happen (if you check XDA developers, its thriving). in this sense phones are different then full fledged computers, hacks tend to work fine and even better then the bundle, certainly cleaner. you can download and replace your phone ROM on the fly now with rom manager (available on Google app market, and try several flavor for your own phone, (with/without htc sense, clean froyo etc..) restoring your bought apps is simple, just log into your Google account, and re download. 2. The Movie industry will shun a platform that non sanctioned (i.e not supporting DRM) developers and users can easily command, Netflix has no choice but to comply.
tomjen3 16y ago
Thats just stupid - people can download all their content of p2p networks, but not get it legally? Smart move, people, smart move.
cscotta 16y ago
I've read through this post a few times and am having some difficulty understanding both the original problem and the solution that Greg is suggesting. From what I can gather, it seems that Netflix's product development team is frustrated to find that there is no integrated support for DRM'd media streams provided by the OS. From here, he jumps to the conclusion that the best approach is working with individual handset manufacturers to patch in support for this at the OS or kernel level. This is difficult to understand. It's an operating system. You build things on top of it. One does not go to every PC manufacturer to add a "feature" to one. Spectres of "fragmentation" aside, let's remember that these phones are real computers running a real Linux-based OS that run real software, written in real programming languages like C, Java, and Scala. They also have support for encrypted transports like SSL and high-quality video codecs like H.264. Heck, Adobe's even done it - secure content streaming on Android is possible, and works fine (speaking strictly of the transport and decoding layer - leave it to the bloggeurs to hash over what happens when you paint content on a screen). These facts suggest that implementing secure DRM'd video streams and a player for them is not only possible, but much easier than working directly with two of the most backward-facing industries in technology now (film studios and mobile phone providers) to add this functionality.
- sukuriant 16y ago
  I direct you to the nutjob123 conversation tree on this very topic, starting here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1901128 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1901128
- bigmac 16y ago
  The problem comes down to key-hiding. You can encrypt it all you want but if the attacker can extract the key from the software the game is over. Working with the mobile phone providers, you can embed the root key in hardware. This makes it more difficult to extract. Straight software solutions exist, but are typically provided 3rd parties or by the OS vendors themselves. The software solutions are obviously more convenient, for the reasons you've alluded to. Netflix gets to make lots of money exactly because they do the hard work of working with the backward-facing industries.
RK 16y ago
I just want an official queue manager app from Netflix for Android.
- irons 16y ago
  I'm not sure you do -- queue management in the official iOS app is lousy, and streaming-only to boot (except on the iPad, where it just presents a slow webview of the Netflix site). iPhlix has its problems, but is a much better overall package, and an indie development effort.
FiddlerClamp 16y ago
I'm surprised by this. Overdrive (http://www.overdrive.com/software/omc/ http://www.overdrive.com/software/omc/) seems to be able to handle 'loaning' MP3s out to Android phones, so there must be some internal DRM involved that they're satisfied with.
teilo 16y ago
And this is why DRM is a a threat to open source. Consider what this means: Want Netflix? You need DRM. Want DRM? Say goodbye to your open-source kernel.

Netflix on Android

51 points by tortilla 16y ago

waterlesscloud 16y ago

I assume this is the same reasoning for not having Netflix streaming available on Linux.

YooLi 16y ago
Netflix chose MSFT's Silverlight for handling PC streaming. Lack of silverlight on Linux is the problem.
- waterlesscloud 16y ago
  Step 2 would be to ask why Silverlight is so important to them.
  - YooLi 16y ago
    Step 3 would be to ask what does Step 2 have to do with anything?
    - waterlesscloud 16y ago
      The reasons for their choice have everything to do with why they made the choice.
- azim 16y ago
  Silverlight 2 is supported on Linux by Moonlight as of late 2009. However, the implementation is lacking support for Microsoft's PlayReady DRM.
- naner 16y ago
  Netflix is available on Roku, GoogleTV, and the Boxee Box which all run Linux kernels. Lack of DRM is the problem. I believe the interface is authored on top of Qt and DRM is handled by special hardware in these devices.
RK 16y ago
Of course Roku runs Linux.

nkurz 16y ago

Could someone who understands the technical issues explain the details better? While perfect security is of course impossible, I would think that a 'secure' flash player could basically be grabbed off-the-shelf. And I haven't really thought about it, but I don't understand why a native app would be that hard. I presume the goal is just to make it difficult to record the movies to disk?

mattparcher 16y ago
I agree. Clarification would be especially appreciated for: The hurdle has been the lack of a generic and complete platform security and content protection mechanism available for Android. The same security issues that have led to piracy concerns on the Android platform have made it difficult for us to secure a common Digital Rights Management (DRM) system on these devices.
nutjob123 16y ago
Are they only willing to use copy protection designed by the makers of the operating system they are using? I'm just speculating but this seems to be the case for ps3, xbox, wii, mac, pc, ipad.
- mortenjorck 16y ago
  I never thought about it like that, but now that you mention it, it does seem a likely pattern. It's especially plausible because it frees Netflix from responsibility for content protection systems across platforms -- if one of the targets is compromised, the studios have to deal with the hardware vendor, not Netflix.
  - doron 16y ago
    Android hack development has reached a point where replacing the manufacturer OS with a custom version built by hackers has become completely trivial on some leading models. not only do I see more and more nontechnical users carrying android phones, but an increasing number of them carry rooted and custom OS builds. The office manager at my workplace found her Verizon stock OS slow,and prone to occasional crashes in trying to understand why, she stumbled about (google search)a howto article on replacing the OS in two clicks (using unrevoked, adding a zip file to your phone, and clicking some key combination), having done so, happy and empowered by the change she performed, she instructs other nontech how to own (!!!) their handsets. The point of this story is that: 1. This is probably the intention behind why google allowed this to happen (if you check XDA developers, its thriving). in this sense phones are different then full fledged computers, hacks tend to work fine and even better then the bundle, certainly cleaner. you can download and replace your phone ROM on the fly now with rom manager (available on Google app market, and try several flavor for your own phone, (with/without htc sense, clean froyo etc..) restoring your bought apps is simple, just log into your Google account, and re download. 2. The Movie industry will shun a platform that non sanctioned (i.e not supporting DRM) developers and users can easily command, Netflix has no choice but to comply.

tomjen3 16y ago

Thats just stupid - people can download all their content of p2p networks, but not get it legally? Smart move, people, smart move.

cscotta 16y ago

I've read through this post a few times and am having some difficulty understanding both the original problem and the solution that Greg is suggesting. From what I can gather, it seems that Netflix's product development team is frustrated to find that there is no integrated support for DRM'd media streams provided by the OS. From here, he jumps to the conclusion that the best approach is working with individual handset manufacturers to patch in support for this at the OS or kernel level. This is difficult to understand. It's an operating system. You build things on top of it. One does not go to every PC manufacturer to add a "feature" to one. Spectres of "fragmentation" aside, let's remember that these phones are real computers running a real Linux-based OS that run real software, written in real programming languages like C, Java, and Scala. They also have support for encrypted transports like SSL and high-quality video codecs like H.264. Heck, Adobe's even done it - secure content streaming on Android is possible, and works fine (speaking strictly of the transport and decoding layer - leave it to the bloggeurs to hash over what happens when you paint content on a screen). These facts suggest that implementing secure DRM'd video streams and a player for them is not only possible, but much easier than working directly with two of the most backward-facing industries in technology now (film studios and mobile phone providers) to add this functionality.

sukuriant 16y ago
I direct you to the nutjob123 conversation tree on this very topic, starting here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1901128 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1901128
bigmac 16y ago
The problem comes down to key-hiding. You can encrypt it all you want but if the attacker can extract the key from the software the game is over. Working with the mobile phone providers, you can embed the root key in hardware. This makes it more difficult to extract. Straight software solutions exist, but are typically provided 3rd parties or by the OS vendors themselves. The software solutions are obviously more convenient, for the reasons you've alluded to. Netflix gets to make lots of money exactly because they do the hard work of working with the backward-facing industries.

RK 16y ago

I just want an official queue manager app from Netflix for Android.

irons 16y ago
I'm not sure you do -- queue management in the official iOS app is lousy, and streaming-only to boot (except on the iPad, where it just presents a slow webview of the Netflix site). iPhlix has its problems, but is a much better overall package, and an indie development effort.

FiddlerClamp 16y ago

I'm surprised by this. Overdrive (http://www.overdrive.com/software/omc/ http://www.overdrive.com/software/omc/) seems to be able to handle 'loaning' MP3s out to Android phones, so there must be some internal DRM involved that they're satisfied with.

teilo 16y ago

And this is why DRM is a a threat to open source. Consider what this means: Want Netflix? You need DRM. Want DRM? Say goodbye to your open-source kernel.