4 ms·

> Not having to move the camera around is massive. If it's so massive, why did their camera-limited agent have near-parity against their non-camera-limited age

by gwern 8y ago

> Not having to move the camera around is massive. If it's so massive, why did their camera-limited agent have near-parity against their non-camera-limited agents?

s_m_t 8y ago
I thought the camera limited match was the only one it lost? Once alphastar was faced with a scenario that couldn't be brute forced with perfect micro it pretty much stopped working.
- the8472 8y ago
  Internally it played thousands of training games and performed en par to the non-limited agents.[0] A far bigger factor is that this new agent simply trained for fewer days because they only implemented it recently and it was hot out of the oven. Give it another week of training and it would probably be a hard nut to crack again. That said, the matches are played in a manner that gives the humans little time to look for idiosyncratic AI behavior that's exploitable. If they played several dozens of matches against the same set of 5 agents again and again they would probably figure out some cheesy strategy that the AI doesn't know to defend against. We're not yet at the point where the AI can adapt to counter-adaptions in realtime. [0] https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind-live-cms/images/SCII-BlogPost-Fig10_02.width-1500.png https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind-live-cms/images/SCII...
  - rightbyte 8y ago
    The Dota bot was easy to exploit after some game against it to figure it out for example.
rightbyte 8y ago
Overfitting maybe. The show off game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUTMhmVh1qs&t=2h31m22s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUTMhmVh1qs&t=2h31m22s The bot is getting it's main force lured back to it's base by hit and runs for it's resource producers. Repeating the same mistake again and again. Later it acts confused and rather have it's main base wrecked than having a high risk fight with it's main force vs the players main force, even though it would auto-lose not doing so. I've got a feeling these bots have a huge API advantage in "mechanical" skills versus humans. Eg. it has to be way faster to retrieve the "x ability used by y" event than seeing an animation unfold on the screen, leaking intention to bots earlier then human players.

by gwern 8y ago

> Not having to move the camera around is massive. If it's so massive, why did their camera-limited agent have near-parity against their non-camera-limited agents?

s_m_t 8y ago

I thought the camera limited match was the only one it lost? Once alphastar was faced with a scenario that couldn't be brute forced with perfect micro it pretty much stopped working.

the8472 8y ago
Internally it played thousands of training games and performed en par to the non-limited agents.[0] A far bigger factor is that this new agent simply trained for fewer days because they only implemented it recently and it was hot out of the oven. Give it another week of training and it would probably be a hard nut to crack again. That said, the matches are played in a manner that gives the humans little time to look for idiosyncratic AI behavior that's exploitable. If they played several dozens of matches against the same set of 5 agents again and again they would probably figure out some cheesy strategy that the AI doesn't know to defend against. We're not yet at the point where the AI can adapt to counter-adaptions in realtime. [0] https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind-live-cms/images/SCII-BlogPost-Fig10_02.width-1500.png https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind-live-cms/images/SCII...
- rightbyte 8y ago
  The Dota bot was easy to exploit after some game against it to figure it out for example.

rightbyte 8y ago

Overfitting maybe. The show off game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUTMhmVh1qs&t=2h31m22s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUTMhmVh1qs&t=2h31m22s The bot is getting it's main force lured back to it's base by hit and runs for it's resource producers. Repeating the same mistake again and again. Later it acts confused and rather have it's main base wrecked than having a high risk fight with it's main force vs the players main force, even though it would auto-lose not doing so. I've got a feeling these bots have a huge API advantage in "mechanical" skills versus humans. Eg. it has to be way faster to retrieve the "x ability used by y" event than seeing an animation unfold on the screen, leaking intention to bots earlier then human players.