4 ms·

Nuclear power is way slower than current generation renewables.

javagram 8y ago
The energy storage problem isn’t solved for current generation renewables as far as I know. Laying out a ton of solar panels everywhere is great but if we have rolling blackouts when it’s too cloudy for a while people will be very upset.
- opportune 8y ago
  I’ve read gravity hydro storage is one of most effective per unit cost but that has significant constraints and potential environmental impacts. But in a region with a lot of waterways hydro is an awesome tool to provide renewable on-demand energy and store excess
  - monetus 8y ago
    I've heard saltwater batteries make sense for this, they just need a lot of space.
- justatdotin 8y ago
  At home, some of my excess power is syphoned off to neighbours, but I'm also using an amazing energy storage technology called batteries. Our government has just announced a number of new large-scale battery farms, as already deployed in neighbouring states.
  - coddingtonbear 8y ago
    I hear people say this sort of thing all the time, "All we need is bigger batteries", but I think the thing folks don't realize is really how small even the worlds biggest batteries are when faced with the actual amount of electricity we use. One of the worlds biggest batteries (currently under construction nearby LA) stores the huge-sounding amount of 400MWh of energy. What isn't clear to folks who don't do the math is that battery is really only big enough to help out with peak load periods. The peak consumption of LA has reached as high as 6,393 MW (about double their average peak). At that rate, that battery -- literally one of the biggest ones in the whole world -- will last just 3.8 minutes.
    - epistasis 8y ago
      This is like extrapolating from the first pilot nuclear reactors to the potential of what they could become: it's just hugely fallacious. Only small pilots have been deployed because batteries are just getting cost competitive now for the first time, and utilities are super slow to pick up new technology. They're not used to living in a world where there is new technology, but they are slowly waking up. It's going to be like digital versus film cameras. Once the critical cost threshold is crosses, they will scale like crazy. And batteries are trivial to scale to huge or small sizes. We could start putting them in all substations and massively increase reliability of the grid in addition to switching to 100% renewables. It's just a matter of cost, we know how to engineer and build them. With nuclear, it's a matter of cost, and we know how to engineer, but we don't know how to build or scale.
    - learnstats2 8y ago
      what I took from what you just said is that batteries would already work fine for periods of peak load, i.e. they work when they are needed.
- learnstats2 8y ago
  Given that Costa Rica, Uruguay, Iceland, Norway, Paraguay, and Tajikistan already run on 100% renewables (and Tokelau runs on 100% solar + batteries): I would judge this to be extremely solved.
  - vinay427 8y ago
    I believe this is incorrect, at least according to this source I found: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.FEC.RNEW.ZS?year_high_desc=true https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.FEC.RNEW.ZS?year_hig... You may be mistaking energy production with energy consumption. However, I'm not entirely sure what qualifies as "energy" in the list that I found. If we mean only electricity, then I believe some of these countries are still less than 100% run on renewables.
    - learnstats2 8y ago
      Your data is from 2015. There are plenty of sources illustrating that things have changed in that time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguay#Green_energy_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguay#Green_energy_supply
      - vinay427 8y ago
        Providing evidence that is speculative for one country is a far cry from the evidence needed to support a definitive statement about several countries, particularly when I provided a source that strongly suggests something to the contrary. I doubt every country on that list completely halted the use of non-renewables in the last 3-4 years given that use was in the double digits in many cases.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]

The energy storage problem isn’t solved for current generation renewables as far as I know. Laying out a ton of solar panels everywhere is great but if we have rolling blackouts when it’s too cloudy for a while people will be very upset.

opportune 8y ago
I’ve read gravity hydro storage is one of most effective per unit cost but that has significant constraints and potential environmental impacts. But in a region with a lot of waterways hydro is an awesome tool to provide renewable on-demand energy and store excess
- monetus 8y ago
  I've heard saltwater batteries make sense for this, they just need a lot of space.
justatdotin 8y ago
At home, some of my excess power is syphoned off to neighbours, but I'm also using an amazing energy storage technology called batteries. Our government has just announced a number of new large-scale battery farms, as already deployed in neighbouring states.
- coddingtonbear 8y ago
  I hear people say this sort of thing all the time, "All we need is bigger batteries", but I think the thing folks don't realize is really how small even the worlds biggest batteries are when faced with the actual amount of electricity we use. One of the worlds biggest batteries (currently under construction nearby LA) stores the huge-sounding amount of 400MWh of energy. What isn't clear to folks who don't do the math is that battery is really only big enough to help out with peak load periods. The peak consumption of LA has reached as high as 6,393 MW (about double their average peak). At that rate, that battery -- literally one of the biggest ones in the whole world -- will last just 3.8 minutes.
  - epistasis 8y ago
    This is like extrapolating from the first pilot nuclear reactors to the potential of what they could become: it's just hugely fallacious. Only small pilots have been deployed because batteries are just getting cost competitive now for the first time, and utilities are super slow to pick up new technology. They're not used to living in a world where there is new technology, but they are slowly waking up. It's going to be like digital versus film cameras. Once the critical cost threshold is crosses, they will scale like crazy. And batteries are trivial to scale to huge or small sizes. We could start putting them in all substations and massively increase reliability of the grid in addition to switching to 100% renewables. It's just a matter of cost, we know how to engineer and build them. With nuclear, it's a matter of cost, and we know how to engineer, but we don't know how to build or scale.
  - learnstats2 8y ago
    what I took from what you just said is that batteries would already work fine for periods of peak load, i.e. they work when they are needed.
learnstats2 8y ago
Given that Costa Rica, Uruguay, Iceland, Norway, Paraguay, and Tajikistan already run on 100% renewables (and Tokelau runs on 100% solar + batteries): I would judge this to be extremely solved.
- vinay427 8y ago
  I believe this is incorrect, at least according to this source I found: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.FEC.RNEW.ZS?year_high_desc=true https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.FEC.RNEW.ZS?year_hig... You may be mistaking energy production with energy consumption. However, I'm not entirely sure what qualifies as "energy" in the list that I found. If we mean only electricity, then I believe some of these countries are still less than 100% run on renewables.
  - learnstats2 8y ago
    Your data is from 2015. There are plenty of sources illustrating that things have changed in that time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguay#Green_energy_supply https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguay#Green_energy_supply
    - vinay427 8y ago
      Providing evidence that is speculative for one country is a far cry from the evidence needed to support a definitive statement about several countries, particularly when I provided a source that strongly suggests something to the contrary. I doubt every country on that list completely halted the use of non-renewables in the last 3-4 years given that use was in the double digits in many cases.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]