4 ms·

On this same topic, of course the big issue with wind and solar is that they don't generate if it is not sunny or windy. This means we still need base power gen

On this same topic, of course the big issue with wind and solar is that they don't generate if it is not sunny or windy. This means we still need base power generation with fossil fuels or fission. However, wind is stochastic enough that on a large grid, around 1/6 of its maximum capacity can be counted as base power.

Retric 8y ago
Nope, you need peaking not base load power. Base load refers to lowest cost per kWh sources that fail to meet the demand curve. That actually describes wind and solar very well. PS: Wind + coal don’t work well together. You end up turning off the coal plant fairly frequently which is bad for the systems and eases cost per kWh.
- lenticular 8y ago
  Guess I got my terminology wrong, but I meant sort of base steady power capacity in the way that fossil fuel plants are. Yeah, I know coal doesn't spin up and down well, but gas does.
- xxgreg 8y ago
  Hard coal plants do a lot of load following in Germany, especially when it's windy. For example the black in these charts is hard coal and the green is wind. https://www.energy-charts.de/power_de.htm?source=all-sources&year=2019&week=3 https://www.energy-charts.de/power_de.htm?source=all-sources...
adrianN 8y ago
With a sufficiently large grid, it's always windy somewhere. Solar-thermal plants can produce electricity over night. We could for example build a bunch of solar thermal in the Sahara and connect Europe via HVDC lines.
- lenticular 8y ago
  Solar thermal is still several times more expensive that PVs, and I'd kind of have trouble seeing how that could come down massively in the same way that PV price has.
  - adrianN 8y ago
    How much more expensive that PV+equivalent storage is it?
    - lenticular 8y ago
      I suppose it depends on the storage. The first full-scale CSP in the US is Crescent Dunes in Nevada, but it cost $975 million and has a rated capacity of only 175 MW. At this point, I wonder if it would make more sense to just use PV with molten salt as storage heated with resistive heating.

Retric 8y ago

Nope, you need peaking not base load power. Base load refers to lowest cost per kWh sources that fail to meet the demand curve. That actually describes wind and solar very well. PS: Wind + coal don’t work well together. You end up turning off the coal plant fairly frequently which is bad for the systems and eases cost per kWh.

lenticular 8y ago
Guess I got my terminology wrong, but I meant sort of base steady power capacity in the way that fossil fuel plants are. Yeah, I know coal doesn't spin up and down well, but gas does.
xxgreg 8y ago
Hard coal plants do a lot of load following in Germany, especially when it's windy. For example the black in these charts is hard coal and the green is wind. https://www.energy-charts.de/power_de.htm?source=all-sources&year=2019&week=3 https://www.energy-charts.de/power_de.htm?source=all-sources...

adrianN 8y ago

With a sufficiently large grid, it's always windy somewhere. Solar-thermal plants can produce electricity over night. We could for example build a bunch of solar thermal in the Sahara and connect Europe via HVDC lines.

lenticular 8y ago
Solar thermal is still several times more expensive that PVs, and I'd kind of have trouble seeing how that could come down massively in the same way that PV price has.
- adrianN 8y ago
  How much more expensive that PV+equivalent storage is it?
  - lenticular 8y ago
    I suppose it depends on the storage. The first full-scale CSP in the US is Crescent Dunes in Nevada, but it cost $975 million and has a rated capacity of only 175 MW. At this point, I wonder if it would make more sense to just use PV with molten salt as storage heated with resistive heating.