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Yes. Would you consider exposing spies in the field, leading to their capture, academic work? Or is more akin to an act of war? You see this work as merely exp

by keyme 8y ago

Yes. Would you consider exposing spies in the field, leading to their capture, academic work? Or is more akin to an act of war? You see this work as merely exposing cyberintrusions. However, for the powers in question, this constitutes harming or disabling strategic intelligence capabilities. At this point shit gets real.

gpm 8y ago
Certainly not an act of war. First of all it would be legal for Citizen Lab to do the exact same thing exposing abuses of the Canadian government. As a Canadian I would expect them to if they discovered the Canadian government doing the exact same thing. This is something protected by internationally and nationally (Canada) recognized rights of free speech, not a crime. Second acts of wars are between countries, the concept doesn't even make sense here. Citizen lab is not a government.
maze-le 8y ago
I doubt they were spies, more likely private investigators. Maybe I am too naive here, but I don't think that spies, who had dedicated a long time of their life to training in acting and impersonation would act so amateurish. They would likely prepare quite some time for this very situation. If a spy acts in such a way that it endangers his/her identity so easily he/she would probably have been given a desk-job as analyst by then. Sure it can always be that their vetting-process is shit -- but I doubt that a real intelligence agency would create such an easily falsifiable legend. From what I have read about the topic there are whole departments dedicated only to the task of building robust identities, companies and so on [these companies wouldn't only have existed on paper]. Retributions are also not very likely (at least in Canada). Anything that would attract the ire of the local or federal police and further endangers other operations in the country in question are very unlikely for such an insignificant target. Even at the height of the cold war keeping agents undercover was considered more important than conducting operations.
- Farradfahren 8y ago
  Mossad is very good. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/By_Way_of_Deception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/By_Way_of_Deception These amateurs are more of a threatening gesture then a real intelligence operation. Also compromising intelligence software is always good buisness. Sorry, the outside ruined the old version for you. But you can buy 2.0 which is invisible again. Problem is to explain to grandma who survived the nazis, that you sold listening tools to goebbels. But hey, i think a good old "Everyone else did it too" should smooth that one over. It worked for most ex-nazis too.
Gokenstein 8y ago
If a spy leaves his disguise in my trash can and I take it to the police the spy exposed themselves. Taking steps to intimidate a citizen because your spy screwed up is an act of war, but not by the citizen.
alasdair_ 8y ago
So the people who posted research on stuxnet were engaging in an act of war? That waters down the phrase to the point of meaninglessness.

by keyme 8y ago

gpm 8y ago

Certainly not an act of war. First of all it would be legal for Citizen Lab to do the exact same thing exposing abuses of the Canadian government. As a Canadian I would expect them to if they discovered the Canadian government doing the exact same thing. This is something protected by internationally and nationally (Canada) recognized rights of free speech, not a crime. Second acts of wars are between countries, the concept doesn't even make sense here. Citizen lab is not a government.

maze-le 8y ago

I doubt they were spies, more likely private investigators. Maybe I am too naive here, but I don't think that spies, who had dedicated a long time of their life to training in acting and impersonation would act so amateurish. They would likely prepare quite some time for this very situation. If a spy acts in such a way that it endangers his/her identity so easily he/she would probably have been given a desk-job as analyst by then. Sure it can always be that their vetting-process is shit -- but I doubt that a real intelligence agency would create such an easily falsifiable legend. From what I have read about the topic there are whole departments dedicated only to the task of building robust identities, companies and so on [these companies wouldn't only have existed on paper]. Retributions are also not very likely (at least in Canada). Anything that would attract the ire of the local or federal police and further endangers other operations in the country in question are very unlikely for such an insignificant target. Even at the height of the cold war keeping agents undercover was considered more important than conducting operations.

Farradfahren 8y ago
Mossad is very good. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/By_Way_of_Deception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/By_Way_of_Deception These amateurs are more of a threatening gesture then a real intelligence operation. Also compromising intelligence software is always good buisness. Sorry, the outside ruined the old version for you. But you can buy 2.0 which is invisible again. Problem is to explain to grandma who survived the nazis, that you sold listening tools to goebbels. But hey, i think a good old "Everyone else did it too" should smooth that one over. It worked for most ex-nazis too.

Gokenstein 8y ago

If a spy leaves his disguise in my trash can and I take it to the police the spy exposed themselves. Taking steps to intimidate a citizen because your spy screwed up is an act of war, but not by the citizen.

alasdair_ 8y ago

So the people who posted research on stuxnet were engaging in an act of war? That waters down the phrase to the point of meaninglessness.