4 ms·

The 100-mile border zone is being enforced. Are you contradicting the news articles, videos and other first-hand accounts of raids taking place far from the bor

The 100-mile border zone is being enforced. Are you contradicting the news articles, videos and other first-hand accounts of raids taking place far from the border? The evidence is right in front of your eyes.

jcranmer 8y ago
I'm not disputing that there is a 100-mile border zone. I'm disputing that the depiction of the border zone is inaccurate with respect to the water borders, which greatly skews the map around the Chesapeake Bay and Lake Michigan. If you want to convince me that my interpretation is wrong, please either: a) Provide a link to a court ruling or CBP interpretation that the 100 miles starts at the coast and not the international waters boundary at 12nmi, or b) Provide a link to evidence that checkpoints are being conducted under the provision of this regulation that are occurring within 100 miles of the coast but not within 100 miles of the international waters boundary.
- dnautics 8y ago
  If the cbp itself claims authority then a court ruling either way is irrelevant since courts generally won't preemptively judge unless someone shows standing to bring about a suit, which doesn't happen until after the cbp asserts it's authority with direct action.
  - tptacek 8y ago
    You can moot just about any argument about the law with this argument, so that's not a very interesting rebuttal.
    - dnautics 8y ago
      My point was exactly that point about the parent, so, thanks.
      - tptacek 8y ago
        No, that doesn't work: he cited the actual statute that backs up what he's saying in plain language.
        dnautics 8y ago
        I don't think you and I are reading English the same way.
        tptacek 8y ago
        Can you expand on that somehow?
- hedora 8y ago
  B) The article points out that the CBP has killed at least one person 160 miles from the coast. So, that covers the “but not within 100 miles of the international waters boundary” part of your request.
  - ComputerGuru 8y ago
    I’m not sure what that proves except that CBP recognizes no limits on its jurisdiction.
- antonvs 8y ago
  The ACLU page includes the following claim: > And still CBP cheats its way to more interior encroachment, for example, by claiming that the Great Lakes shared with Canada are “functional equivalents of the border” so that all of Michigan and Chicago are in its reach. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to provide any support for that, but presumably they have some basis for saying that.
  - tptacek 8y ago
    Their basis is that they have documents from CBP claiming authority over a "functional equivalent" of the border, but they do not themselves agree with that assessment. There's a page they have with documents from a FOIA lawsuit where they more or less say that directly.
  - torstenvl 8y ago
    Lake Michigan is not shared with Canada. Chicago is not within 100 miles of Lake Huron, Lake Erie, or Lake Superior.
    - tomjakubowski 8y ago
      I'm sure it's not legally relevant but, hydrologically speaking, Michigan and Huron are a single lake.

jcranmer 8y ago

I'm not disputing that there is a 100-mile border zone. I'm disputing that the depiction of the border zone is inaccurate with respect to the water borders, which greatly skews the map around the Chesapeake Bay and Lake Michigan. If you want to convince me that my interpretation is wrong, please either: a) Provide a link to a court ruling or CBP interpretation that the 100 miles starts at the coast and not the international waters boundary at 12nmi, or b) Provide a link to evidence that checkpoints are being conducted under the provision of this regulation that are occurring within 100 miles of the coast but not within 100 miles of the international waters boundary.

dnautics 8y ago
If the cbp itself claims authority then a court ruling either way is irrelevant since courts generally won't preemptively judge unless someone shows standing to bring about a suit, which doesn't happen until after the cbp asserts it's authority with direct action.
- tptacek 8y ago
  You can moot just about any argument about the law with this argument, so that's not a very interesting rebuttal.
  - dnautics 8y ago
    My point was exactly that point about the parent, so, thanks.
    - tptacek 8y ago
      No, that doesn't work: he cited the actual statute that backs up what he's saying in plain language.
      - dnautics 8y ago
        I don't think you and I are reading English the same way.
        tptacek 8y ago
        Can you expand on that somehow?
hedora 8y ago
B) The article points out that the CBP has killed at least one person 160 miles from the coast. So, that covers the “but not within 100 miles of the international waters boundary” part of your request.
- ComputerGuru 8y ago
  I’m not sure what that proves except that CBP recognizes no limits on its jurisdiction.
antonvs 8y ago
The ACLU page includes the following claim: > And still CBP cheats its way to more interior encroachment, for example, by claiming that the Great Lakes shared with Canada are “functional equivalents of the border” so that all of Michigan and Chicago are in its reach. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to provide any support for that, but presumably they have some basis for saying that.
- tptacek 8y ago
  Their basis is that they have documents from CBP claiming authority over a "functional equivalent" of the border, but they do not themselves agree with that assessment. There's a page they have with documents from a FOIA lawsuit where they more or less say that directly.
- torstenvl 8y ago
  Lake Michigan is not shared with Canada. Chicago is not within 100 miles of Lake Huron, Lake Erie, or Lake Superior.
  - tomjakubowski 8y ago
    I'm sure it's not legally relevant but, hydrologically speaking, Michigan and Huron are a single lake.