5 ms·

Microsoft’s fonts catch out another fraudster–this time in Canada

85 points by theBashShell 8y ago

14 8y ago
Seems like someone could create a little program that could let you choose time specific fonts. Though I really can't see much use in such a program other then something someone might produce just for practice.
- Sharlin 8y ago
  Any situation where you need era-appropriate typography and are serious about it even when you’re not trying to be deceitful. Eg. movies, games, and their various marketing material. Though usually if you are serious you have money to hire a graphic designer.
  - zokier 8y ago
    Or just hire a nerd with all-sixties IBM gear :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMDP3Iz6D6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMDP3Iz6D6A (although the pedantic in me notes that he used the wrong selectric ball (prestige elite vs large elite) for the license)
- zokier 8y ago
  Anyone smart enough to use such program would probably be smart enough to just google the correct fonts.
- Waterluvian 8y ago
  Let's go the other way too. Are there any websites that accept an image and via image analysis able to tell you things about the doc? I wonder how much you could infer about a doc given its margins, font, kerning, leading, etc. "This looks like default settings in Word XP"
gruez 8y ago
Moral of the story: if you're going to backdate documents, use a VM with period OS/software. It probably wouldn't hurt to use antique printers as well.
- tzs 8y ago
  Use old paper and old ink, too. It's probably possible to tell that ink was applied to paper recently, even if the ink and paper are both old, but I'd expect that the longer it has been the more uncertainty there is so you should be able to fake an N year old document without having to let the ink dry or set or diffuse or whatever it does for N years. I'd assume that there are ways to speed this processes up, too. I have no idea what the curve looks like though. This may only be practical if you aren't in a hurry. So, faking a document that you've just found out you need and you need soon might not be feasible, but faking something like a mint condition vintage comic book might be possible. Probably should also use vintage staples or glue or whatever was used for binding at the time you want to claim the document is from. This is really the kind of thing you want to plan ahead for, rather than find yourself on eBay trying to find a specific make or model 50 year old printer that works. Any competently run evil organization that has a decent budget (Hydra, KAOS, Cobra, AIM, etc) will regularly buy copies of the document production equipment and supplies used by contemporary businesses, governments, and hero groups and keep that equipment working and well maintained for several decades for retroactive document production.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    >It's probably possible to tell that ink was applied to paper recently, Confidence on this measurement is probably very low. Documents in a basement in Miami (they don't do basements in Florida for a reason) will age very differently to documents in an attic in Tuscon which will age very differently than documents in a garage in Fairbanks.
  - bwblabs 8y ago
    Better use an old printer indeed, since modern printers can have tracking dots with a timestamp and a serial number of the printer, which both can give away the backdating (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code)
decafbad 8y ago
That wasn't Turkish Government. It was the parallel state responsible from coup attempt in July 2013. Defendants acquitted now, maybe a little too late. I laughed when I learned almost all Americans don't know their soldiers retreated at First Iraq War (Gulf War) when Saddam accepted actually leaving 1/3 of his country at north and having loose control on 1/3 at south. So, ignorance on the Calibri issue looks tiny, compared to that one.
- decafbad 8y ago
  s/2013/2016/
shawkinaw 8y ago
Tangential to the main point of the story, but why were this CEO’s homes up for grabs when his company collapsed? Isn’t liability limited to the company?
- tyingq 8y ago
  "Piercing the corporate veil"
- tptacek 8y ago
  He was sued as a director of the company for breach of fiduciary duty (in part with respect to executive compensation).
- pjc50 8y ago
  Some background: https://business.financialpost.com/news/fp-street/the-seven-year-battle-to-get-former-look-communications-directors-to-repay-indemnification https://business.financialpost.com/news/fp-street/the-seven-...
a-dub 8y ago
lol. wouldn't surprise me one bit if there's an additional watermark buried in tiny variations in the kerning or something as well...

85 points by theBashShell 8y ago

14 8y ago

Seems like someone could create a little program that could let you choose time specific fonts. Though I really can't see much use in such a program other then something someone might produce just for practice.

Sharlin 8y ago
Any situation where you need era-appropriate typography and are serious about it even when you’re not trying to be deceitful. Eg. movies, games, and their various marketing material. Though usually if you are serious you have money to hire a graphic designer.
- zokier 8y ago
  Or just hire a nerd with all-sixties IBM gear :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMDP3Iz6D6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMDP3Iz6D6A (although the pedantic in me notes that he used the wrong selectric ball (prestige elite vs large elite) for the license)
zokier 8y ago
Anyone smart enough to use such program would probably be smart enough to just google the correct fonts.
Waterluvian 8y ago
Let's go the other way too. Are there any websites that accept an image and via image analysis able to tell you things about the doc? I wonder how much you could infer about a doc given its margins, font, kerning, leading, etc. "This looks like default settings in Word XP"

gruez 8y ago

Moral of the story: if you're going to backdate documents, use a VM with period OS/software. It probably wouldn't hurt to use antique printers as well.

tzs 8y ago
Use old paper and old ink, too. It's probably possible to tell that ink was applied to paper recently, even if the ink and paper are both old, but I'd expect that the longer it has been the more uncertainty there is so you should be able to fake an N year old document without having to let the ink dry or set or diffuse or whatever it does for N years. I'd assume that there are ways to speed this processes up, too. I have no idea what the curve looks like though. This may only be practical if you aren't in a hurry. So, faking a document that you've just found out you need and you need soon might not be feasible, but faking something like a mint condition vintage comic book might be possible. Probably should also use vintage staples or glue or whatever was used for binding at the time you want to claim the document is from. This is really the kind of thing you want to plan ahead for, rather than find yourself on eBay trying to find a specific make or model 50 year old printer that works. Any competently run evil organization that has a decent budget (Hydra, KAOS, Cobra, AIM, etc) will regularly buy copies of the document production equipment and supplies used by contemporary businesses, governments, and hero groups and keep that equipment working and well maintained for several decades for retroactive document production.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  >It's probably possible to tell that ink was applied to paper recently, Confidence on this measurement is probably very low. Documents in a basement in Miami (they don't do basements in Florida for a reason) will age very differently to documents in an attic in Tuscon which will age very differently than documents in a garage in Fairbanks.
- bwblabs 8y ago
  Better use an old printer indeed, since modern printers can have tracking dots with a timestamp and a serial number of the printer, which both can give away the backdating (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code)

decafbad 8y ago

That wasn't Turkish Government. It was the parallel state responsible from coup attempt in July 2013. Defendants acquitted now, maybe a little too late. I laughed when I learned almost all Americans don't know their soldiers retreated at First Iraq War (Gulf War) when Saddam accepted actually leaving 1/3 of his country at north and having loose control on 1/3 at south. So, ignorance on the Calibri issue looks tiny, compared to that one.

decafbad 8y ago
s/2013/2016/

shawkinaw 8y ago

Tangential to the main point of the story, but why were this CEO’s homes up for grabs when his company collapsed? Isn’t liability limited to the company?

tyingq 8y ago
"Piercing the corporate veil"
tptacek 8y ago
He was sued as a director of the company for breach of fiduciary duty (in part with respect to executive compensation).
pjc50 8y ago
Some background: https://business.financialpost.com/news/fp-street/the-seven-year-battle-to-get-former-look-communications-directors-to-repay-indemnification https://business.financialpost.com/news/fp-street/the-seven-...

a-dub 8y ago

lol. wouldn't surprise me one bit if there's an additional watermark buried in tiny variations in the kerning or something as well...