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> From calling early users "dumb fucks" For the love of god, enough already. This is mentioned on almost every Facebook story we get on Hacker News. It's becom

> From calling early users "dumb fucks" For the love of god, enough already. This is mentioned on almost every Facebook story we get on Hacker News. It's becoming a meme! Look, barely 15 hours ago it was mentioned on another story: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19004067 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19004067 Can we please elevate the discussion around Facebook and stop mindlessly citing something Zuckerberg said when he was barely an adult? If you want to substantively critique Facebook, by all means do so. There's plenty of material to work with. You don't need to dig into the private conversations a college student had over a decade ago. Please read and internalize this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19005009 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19005009

darkpuma 8y ago
It will remain relevant until Zuckerberg is able to convince people that he no longer feels that way about the common plebs. The way he's been running his company ever since then shows that he still feels that way. Some things you just don't get to live down, particularly when you show no signs of changing who you are. What kind of person would refuse to give refunds when children get scammed out of money by games designed by professionals from the gambling industry to confuse and manipulate children? Somebody who thinks their users are "dumbfucks", that's who.
- throwawaymath 8y ago
  It's not relevant for understanding Facebook's current challenges whatsoever. Do you honestly believe that most human beings can't be judged just as harshly for things they said in private conversation when they were 19 years old? Most people don't make offhand, immature and puerile remarks as a teenager? Should those remarks be used to critically understand large companies a decade and a half later? It's also inane to keep citing it, because there is nothing new to the comment. It brings absolutely nothing new to the discussion that any of us can dig into. It's just an opportunity to fire off yet another short, low effort comment about Facebook. What drives me mad is that you don't need to cite this stupid quote to convince people Facebook has serious privacy issues. There's so much better material to choose from - more recent, more extensively documented, involving more people...
  - 50656E6973 8y ago
    >It's not relevant for understanding Facebook's current challenges whatsoever Yeah, it is. Looking at the original goals and intentions that FB was founded around is indeed quite relevant to understanding their current actions.
    - throwawaymath 8y ago
      No, it's not. You ignored basically everything I just said. Facebook was not founded around principles written in a private conversation. And even if it was, those principles are not a suitable lens for understanding the massive enterprise it has become. Would you like any company you found in perpetuity to be criticized based on a private chat you had on AIM two decades ago? Judge Facebook's current issues according to substantive evidence we have in the present day. It's not like we're wanting for it! There's plenty of it, we don't need to rehash the words of a teenager who is now in their thirties every time their company pops up on HN! I don't get why this is so hard to understand. You'd think I'm defending Facebook here. I'm not! I'm telling people to stop injecting noise into discussions about Facebook's legitimate privacy concerns.
      - 50656E6973 8y ago
        >Would you like any company you found in perpetuity to be criticized based on a private chat you had on AIM two decades ago? Yeah, because that's relevant information, and that's how context works. We see this in courts of law. Why can't we look at history and consider the present at the same time?
        tomhoward 8y ago
        > that's how context works When people invoke this quote they never examine the context. There's every possibility that this comment was self-deprecating as much as mocking his users, but that possibility is never explored. People just deliriously portray him as this deeply odious Dr Evil-like villain in the making, and can't actually imagine a goofy 19-year-old saying goofy 19-year-old shit.
Lio 8y ago
Has Zuck ever apologised for saying it? That’s a geniune question. If he has then we might indeed be able to right this off as a folly of youth. If he hasn’t and he knows how it keeps being brought up it means something different.
- darkpuma 8y ago
  Back in 2010 He said that he regretted writing that message and that he'd matured a lot. The decade that followed that apology, his subsequent actions time and time again spoke much louder.

darkpuma 8y ago

It will remain relevant until Zuckerberg is able to convince people that he no longer feels that way about the common plebs. The way he's been running his company ever since then shows that he still feels that way. Some things you just don't get to live down, particularly when you show no signs of changing who you are. What kind of person would refuse to give refunds when children get scammed out of money by games designed by professionals from the gambling industry to confuse and manipulate children? Somebody who thinks their users are "dumbfucks", that's who.

throwawaymath 8y ago
It's not relevant for understanding Facebook's current challenges whatsoever. Do you honestly believe that most human beings can't be judged just as harshly for things they said in private conversation when they were 19 years old? Most people don't make offhand, immature and puerile remarks as a teenager? Should those remarks be used to critically understand large companies a decade and a half later? It's also inane to keep citing it, because there is nothing new to the comment. It brings absolutely nothing new to the discussion that any of us can dig into. It's just an opportunity to fire off yet another short, low effort comment about Facebook. What drives me mad is that you don't need to cite this stupid quote to convince people Facebook has serious privacy issues. There's so much better material to choose from - more recent, more extensively documented, involving more people...
- 50656E6973 8y ago
  >It's not relevant for understanding Facebook's current challenges whatsoever Yeah, it is. Looking at the original goals and intentions that FB was founded around is indeed quite relevant to understanding their current actions.
  - throwawaymath 8y ago
    No, it's not. You ignored basically everything I just said. Facebook was not founded around principles written in a private conversation. And even if it was, those principles are not a suitable lens for understanding the massive enterprise it has become. Would you like any company you found in perpetuity to be criticized based on a private chat you had on AIM two decades ago? Judge Facebook's current issues according to substantive evidence we have in the present day. It's not like we're wanting for it! There's plenty of it, we don't need to rehash the words of a teenager who is now in their thirties every time their company pops up on HN! I don't get why this is so hard to understand. You'd think I'm defending Facebook here. I'm not! I'm telling people to stop injecting noise into discussions about Facebook's legitimate privacy concerns.
    - 50656E6973 8y ago
      >Would you like any company you found in perpetuity to be criticized based on a private chat you had on AIM two decades ago? Yeah, because that's relevant information, and that's how context works. We see this in courts of law. Why can't we look at history and consider the present at the same time?
      - tomhoward 8y ago
        > that's how context works When people invoke this quote they never examine the context. There's every possibility that this comment was self-deprecating as much as mocking his users, but that possibility is never explored. People just deliriously portray him as this deeply odious Dr Evil-like villain in the making, and can't actually imagine a goofy 19-year-old saying goofy 19-year-old shit.

Lio 8y ago

Has Zuck ever apologised for saying it? That’s a geniune question. If he has then we might indeed be able to right this off as a folly of youth. If he hasn’t and he knows how it keeps being brought up it means something different.

darkpuma 8y ago
Back in 2010 He said that he regretted writing that message and that he'd matured a lot. The decade that followed that apology, his subsequent actions time and time again spoke much louder.