3 ms·

I get where you’re coming from, but it seems any proposal that requires every single person to change to be protected from some harm is destined to failure, or

I get where you’re coming from, but it seems any proposal that requires every single person to change to be protected from some harm is destined to failure, or would at least be incomplete and take decades to establish itself. Judging by how populism is tearing our societies apart, we may not have that time. Indeed, the problem of coordinated action is so prevalent in any society, we have developed a host of tools to tackle it: morality and religion („don’t eat pork“), heuristics (“no free lunch”), and, yes, government (SEC, FAA, FDA,...) The adjacency to free speech may increase the downside risk. But if the alternative is between government intervention and what is essentially “before flying, check that the pilot does not appear drunk”, the former seems to be the obvious choice. If the industry or the public wish to avoid that fate, they would have to come up with something in the middle: self-restraint (ha), or possibly a private certification scheme like MPAA. It’s also notable that we do have examples very close to the issue of free speech that did not go down the slippery slope, namely public-airwaves television (were regulation is somewhat silly, but in no way restricting viewpoints other than sex being a healthy activity), and the aforementioned MPAa.

Mirioron 8y ago
>If the industry or the public wish to avoid that fate, they would have to come up with something in the middle: self-restraint (ha), or possibly a private certification scheme like MPAA. Sounds to me like you've accepted government tyranny as being the default. You also make it sound as though government intervention fixes all the problems - it doesn't. You STILL have to check whether the pilot is drunk before the flight and sometimes they still are drunk during the flight even with all of the regulations in the industry.
- matt4077 8y ago
  Sounds to me like you have a problem with nuance: meat inspectors != tyranny, if only because they are widely accepted, and created & overseen by democratically elected governments. And either you never fly or frequently lie: there’s no chance they let you examine the pilot as a normal passenger on a commercial flight. Plus, being drunk was obviously just an example. Are you going to subject them to a three-day practical examination? And how are you going to provide tested pilots conducting those exams, without being lost in the recursion of your little populist fantasy?
feanaro 8y ago
> I get where you’re coming from, but it seems any proposal that requires every single person to change to be protected from some harm is destined to failure, or would at least be incomplete and take decades to establish itself. Judging by how populism is tearing our societies apart, we may not have that time. Perhaps we may not have the time, but I'm unconvinced it is so. There is also no need for every single person to change, just a critical mass and not necessarily drastically either. I propose that even some awareness of this issue in the majority would be enough. It is also not unprecedented that the overall stance of society changes on some issue drastically over time. I'm thinking of ideas such as the abolition of slavery, women's suffrage, the acceptance of non-white people as equal members of society (yes, the change is not complete, but it is drastically different compared to a hundred years ago), the awareness of sexually transmitted diseases and so forth. The awareness of the danger of letting any single corporation have too much power seems like a good addition to this class of ideas.

Mirioron 8y ago

>If the industry or the public wish to avoid that fate, they would have to come up with something in the middle: self-restraint (ha), or possibly a private certification scheme like MPAA. Sounds to me like you've accepted government tyranny as being the default. You also make it sound as though government intervention fixes all the problems - it doesn't. You STILL have to check whether the pilot is drunk before the flight and sometimes they still are drunk during the flight even with all of the regulations in the industry.

matt4077 8y ago
Sounds to me like you have a problem with nuance: meat inspectors != tyranny, if only because they are widely accepted, and created & overseen by democratically elected governments. And either you never fly or frequently lie: there’s no chance they let you examine the pilot as a normal passenger on a commercial flight. Plus, being drunk was obviously just an example. Are you going to subject them to a three-day practical examination? And how are you going to provide tested pilots conducting those exams, without being lost in the recursion of your little populist fantasy?

feanaro 8y ago

> I get where you’re coming from, but it seems any proposal that requires every single person to change to be protected from some harm is destined to failure, or would at least be incomplete and take decades to establish itself. Judging by how populism is tearing our societies apart, we may not have that time. Perhaps we may not have the time, but I'm unconvinced it is so. There is also no need for every single person to change, just a critical mass and not necessarily drastically either. I propose that even some awareness of this issue in the majority would be enough. It is also not unprecedented that the overall stance of society changes on some issue drastically over time. I'm thinking of ideas such as the abolition of slavery, women's suffrage, the acceptance of non-white people as equal members of society (yes, the change is not complete, but it is drastically different compared to a hundred years ago), the awareness of sexually transmitted diseases and so forth. The awareness of the danger of letting any single corporation have too much power seems like a good addition to this class of ideas.