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Stealing call and contact data off a phone is hacking, it's theft, it's criminal activity. It's what they and their chief engineers did. Prosecute them. Clawbac

Stealing call and contact data off a phone is hacking, it's theft, it's criminal activity. It's what they and their chief engineers did. Prosecute them. Clawback all their earnings. They belong in prison for systemic phone hacking.

mehrdadn 8y ago
Would courts consider it hacking if it was allowed in the terms we accepted?
- alexis_fr 8y ago
  Under the GDPR, I guess explicit content at the moment it is done would be required.
- tripzilch 8y ago
  In the EU, it really depends. I think per country, even. It's not as simple as whatever you wrote in the terms gets to hold, or even not as straightforward as equating clicking with accepting. It's for courts to decide when it gets challenged, but the general idea is, the less obvious or expected the agreement is for normal usage, the less likely it'll hold. So burying some text that amounts to "we get to hack your device" is about as likely to hold as "we get your first born child" (which has been done multiple times by different companies, for fun, and no it doesn't hold).
- gchamonlive 8y ago
  Contracts can be voided if they show serious vices the person signing was not aware of. Moreover, afaik. contracts are not above law and constitution, so if they violate individual rights they can also be voided.
  - mehrdadn 8y ago
    I guess it this must depend on the jurisdiction and the precise rights in question because in the US contracts regularly ask you to give up some of your rights and I'm pretty sure they're enforceable as such.
    - gchamonlive 8y ago
      I found this answer (https://law.stackexchange.com/a/13374 https://law.stackexchange.com/a/13374) though I cannot advocate for the source reliability, it does corroborate with the little research I did in this matter in which as long as the subject of a contract is under the law, the contract is valid, although this is all in context of the seventh amendment. I come to believe, therefore if the subject of a contract, in the facebook case information theft and violation of privacy, the contract can be nullified in favour of the citizen
      - zaarn 8y ago
        In germany a contract can be null and void (in whole, meaning the contract was never valid to begin with or after the fact, meaning the contract was invalidated) without the contract specifically breaking any single law. Unconscionability in german law may occur in a Knebelvertrag (oppressive contract) or in contracts that abuse power differences between the contractual parties or even usury (immoral monetary loans for example). In that case the contract can become invalid. In case of any disagreement, the spirit of a contract weighs harder than the wording in textform, if it is possible to determine. A contract can also not place any part of the agreement outside the reach of a court (ie via arbitration clauses. You can still fight your agreement outside court but you can't forbid someone from going to court). You can't waive most of your rights either and even if you do, a court may determine that contract to be invalid and the other party having violated a right will then be prosecuted. Contracts themselves are largely a specific case of a legal transaction (negotium juridicum) and aren't specifically regulated (all above is basically just about any legal transactions ranging from contracts over last wills to verbal agreements).

mehrdadn 8y ago

Would courts consider it hacking if it was allowed in the terms we accepted?

alexis_fr 8y ago
Under the GDPR, I guess explicit content at the moment it is done would be required.
tripzilch 8y ago
In the EU, it really depends. I think per country, even. It's not as simple as whatever you wrote in the terms gets to hold, or even not as straightforward as equating clicking with accepting. It's for courts to decide when it gets challenged, but the general idea is, the less obvious or expected the agreement is for normal usage, the less likely it'll hold. So burying some text that amounts to "we get to hack your device" is about as likely to hold as "we get your first born child" (which has been done multiple times by different companies, for fun, and no it doesn't hold).
gchamonlive 8y ago
Contracts can be voided if they show serious vices the person signing was not aware of. Moreover, afaik. contracts are not above law and constitution, so if they violate individual rights they can also be voided.
- mehrdadn 8y ago
  I guess it this must depend on the jurisdiction and the precise rights in question because in the US contracts regularly ask you to give up some of your rights and I'm pretty sure they're enforceable as such.
  - gchamonlive 8y ago
    I found this answer (https://law.stackexchange.com/a/13374 https://law.stackexchange.com/a/13374) though I cannot advocate for the source reliability, it does corroborate with the little research I did in this matter in which as long as the subject of a contract is under the law, the contract is valid, although this is all in context of the seventh amendment. I come to believe, therefore if the subject of a contract, in the facebook case information theft and violation of privacy, the contract can be nullified in favour of the citizen
    - zaarn 8y ago
      In germany a contract can be null and void (in whole, meaning the contract was never valid to begin with or after the fact, meaning the contract was invalidated) without the contract specifically breaking any single law. Unconscionability in german law may occur in a Knebelvertrag (oppressive contract) or in contracts that abuse power differences between the contractual parties or even usury (immoral monetary loans for example). In that case the contract can become invalid. In case of any disagreement, the spirit of a contract weighs harder than the wording in textform, if it is possible to determine. A contract can also not place any part of the agreement outside the reach of a court (ie via arbitration clauses. You can still fight your agreement outside court but you can't forbid someone from going to court). You can't waive most of your rights either and even if you do, a court may determine that contract to be invalid and the other party having violated a right will then be prosecuted. Contracts themselves are largely a specific case of a legal transaction (negotium juridicum) and aren't specifically regulated (all above is basically just about any legal transactions ranging from contracts over last wills to verbal agreements).