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So much this. I LOVE paypal as a user because of it. All my subscriptions go through it and if it isn't offered via paypal, I'll reconsider. I love to see a li

So much this. I LOVE paypal as a user because of it. All my subscriptions go through it and if it isn't offered via paypal, I'll reconsider. I love to see a list of all my subscriptions with the ability to unilaterally cancel my subscription at any time via PayPal... I never even contact the companies I 'unsubscribe' from... I simply remove their access to my paypal.

p2t2p 8y ago
I've recently paid for a VPN subscription using BitCoin. When you do BitCoin there is no auto renewal and I consider it to be a good thing. EDIT: s/now/no
- artursapek 8y ago
  It's a pita for the service provider who is implementing the subscription logic, but as the customer it's pretty sweet.
  - michaelt 8y ago
    Isn't the logic the same as a gift subscription? Just at the payment stage you send them to BitPay instead of Paypal?
    - artursapek 8y ago
      The main difference is customers will send the BTC a few minutes too late, and then it turns into this situation where it has to be refunded. This used to be an extra step when using Stripe for BTC payments (they have since stopped supporting BTC payments completely)
- parfamz 8y ago
  Which provider?
  - p2t2p 8y ago
    It was PIA - PrivateInternetAccess. I first tried ExpressVPN and for privacy I'd recommend ExpressVPN because they located in a place with no data retention laws. However PIA has port forwarding support and that is crucial for my case. Both support payment via Bitpay. ExpressVPN returned the money no problem after I've discovered that they don't do port forwarding.
    - Vektorweg 8y ago
      I'm using IPredator. They give you a dynamic IPv4+v6 address and you can pay with Bitcoin.
  - mclehman 8y ago
    I'm sure there are many more, but Mullvad is one VPN provider accepting bitcoin payments (as well as cash).
    - Cyph0n 8y ago
      Mullvad has been great. Very easy to setup and they do not take any of your personal details. Instead of a user/email and password, you get a random account number that is used to track your payments and authenticate you.
briandear 8y ago
Other than PayPal monetizing your payment history, sure it’s great. Apple makes it even easier. This is tangential, but on the topic of PayPal and privacy, this article is interesting about PayPal and HIPAA: https://simple.icouch.me/blog/is-paypal-hipaa-compliant-revisiting-paypal-for-therapists https://simple.icouch.me/blog/is-paypal-hipaa-compliant-revi... Short answer: if privacy matters, PayPal is a non-starter. I don’t want news publishers to have my information either. I know publishers like to howl and whine about “owning the customer relationship,” but unless they allow Apple for subscriptions, I won’t subscribe. I don’t need to be constantly reminder if their “special offers.”
- chrischen 8y ago
  Pretty sure Chase and banks do the same.
- discreditable 8y ago
  Pretty much any credit card mines your purchases. PayPal isn't special in this regard.
- jammygit 8y ago
  What is the alternative? Is, what do informed people do instead of using credit cards or PayPal to buy things? (I assume stripe is the same)
  - dorgo 8y ago
    cash?
  - Tsubasachan 8y ago
    iDeal- basically money from my bank account to the bank account of the person I'm doing business with. Instant, free and no Sillicon Valley dipshit middle men parasites.
  - fl0wenol 8y ago
    Checks, ACH, wire transfers. Bank to bank, for free or very low fee (compared to transferred amount, like 20 bucks to transfer $$$$ with 1 day settlement for a wire transfer)
sqldba 8y ago
Just be careful with this. Some companies will treat this as if it were a bounced check and keep your debt going.
- benatkin 8y ago
  I wouldn't put it past they NYT to do it. They could say that for privacy reasons the billing department can't view the last time you were logged into your account, and boom, they can argue that if they didn't pursue payment, you could be getting features from your paid account for free.
  - frakr 8y ago
    That sounds pretty unlikely to me.
  - hakfoo 8y ago
    Most recurring billing APIs provide some sort of notification or query about the status. They could reasonably do "for each payment we got yesterday, extend the expiration date of the associated account."
    - ascar 8y ago
      Sure. They could also let you easily cancel online. But they don't want to. And if you refuse to pay for a subscription contract you entered, but didn't cancel, you owe them.
- sakarisson 8y ago
  From a legal perspective, would it be enough to send them an e-mail telling them that you no longer want to subscribe to the services before pulling the plug?
  - mehrdadn 8y ago
    Probably depends on whether you email an appropriate address?
chrischen 8y ago
I'd also like to add that despite the negative publicity PayPal gets from the merchant side, it's also preferred over credit cards by merchants for better handling of "disputes". Some consider paypal to be archaic, but it's bleeding edge payment tech when placed alongside traditional credit cards.
- time0ut 8y ago
  Years ago I used PayPal to pay for an on demand server that was advertised to be ready within an hour. Twenty four hours and zero servers later, I had already gone to a competitor and asked for a refund. The company refused and PayPal sided with them. American Express sided with me. I closed my PayPal account forever that day. Now we have even better tools available for subscriptions. Check out privacy card.
  - jammygit 8y ago
    The privacy card privacy policy isn't very comforting. I assume its partially boilerplate but it did keep me from signing up a while ago
  - chrischen 8y ago
    In my experience with credit cards they almost always side with the customer for small charges, and for extremely large charges (and if you're a big enough company) they side with the merchant. I had case where free credits were offered for a cloud provider, but they decided to bill me anyways. Chase decided to validate the charges, and it was clear through multiple calls each agent was making things up about why it was validated (They would give different reasons anytime, from how I worded "free credits"). In the end the cloud provider admitted to the mistake and ended up siding with me, despite chase siding against me (they're supposed to be on the consumer's behalf). So I think in your case Amex probably didn't even consider or evaluate the terms of the sale—they just refunded you because it was within some parameters. This of course can work for or against you depending on the situation.
    - time0ut 8y ago

p2t2p 8y ago

I've recently paid for a VPN subscription using BitCoin. When you do BitCoin there is no auto renewal and I consider it to be a good thing. EDIT: s/now/no

artursapek 8y ago
It's a pita for the service provider who is implementing the subscription logic, but as the customer it's pretty sweet.
- michaelt 8y ago
  Isn't the logic the same as a gift subscription? Just at the payment stage you send them to BitPay instead of Paypal?
  - artursapek 8y ago
    The main difference is customers will send the BTC a few minutes too late, and then it turns into this situation where it has to be refunded. This used to be an extra step when using Stripe for BTC payments (they have since stopped supporting BTC payments completely)
parfamz 8y ago
Which provider?
- p2t2p 8y ago
  It was PIA - PrivateInternetAccess. I first tried ExpressVPN and for privacy I'd recommend ExpressVPN because they located in a place with no data retention laws. However PIA has port forwarding support and that is crucial for my case. Both support payment via Bitpay. ExpressVPN returned the money no problem after I've discovered that they don't do port forwarding.
  - Vektorweg 8y ago
    I'm using IPredator. They give you a dynamic IPv4+v6 address and you can pay with Bitcoin.
- mclehman 8y ago
  I'm sure there are many more, but Mullvad is one VPN provider accepting bitcoin payments (as well as cash).
  - Cyph0n 8y ago
    Mullvad has been great. Very easy to setup and they do not take any of your personal details. Instead of a user/email and password, you get a random account number that is used to track your payments and authenticate you.

briandear 8y ago

Other than PayPal monetizing your payment history, sure it’s great. Apple makes it even easier. This is tangential, but on the topic of PayPal and privacy, this article is interesting about PayPal and HIPAA: https://simple.icouch.me/blog/is-paypal-hipaa-compliant-revisiting-paypal-for-therapists https://simple.icouch.me/blog/is-paypal-hipaa-compliant-revi... Short answer: if privacy matters, PayPal is a non-starter. I don’t want news publishers to have my information either. I know publishers like to howl and whine about “owning the customer relationship,” but unless they allow Apple for subscriptions, I won’t subscribe. I don’t need to be constantly reminder if their “special offers.”

chrischen 8y ago
Pretty sure Chase and banks do the same.
discreditable 8y ago
Pretty much any credit card mines your purchases. PayPal isn't special in this regard.
jammygit 8y ago
What is the alternative? Is, what do informed people do instead of using credit cards or PayPal to buy things? (I assume stripe is the same)
- dorgo 8y ago
  cash?
- Tsubasachan 8y ago
  iDeal- basically money from my bank account to the bank account of the person I'm doing business with. Instant, free and no Sillicon Valley dipshit middle men parasites.
- fl0wenol 8y ago
  Checks, ACH, wire transfers. Bank to bank, for free or very low fee (compared to transferred amount, like 20 bucks to transfer $$$$ with 1 day settlement for a wire transfer)

sqldba 8y ago

Just be careful with this. Some companies will treat this as if it were a bounced check and keep your debt going.

benatkin 8y ago
I wouldn't put it past they NYT to do it. They could say that for privacy reasons the billing department can't view the last time you were logged into your account, and boom, they can argue that if they didn't pursue payment, you could be getting features from your paid account for free.
- frakr 8y ago
  That sounds pretty unlikely to me.
- hakfoo 8y ago
  Most recurring billing APIs provide some sort of notification or query about the status. They could reasonably do "for each payment we got yesterday, extend the expiration date of the associated account."
  - ascar 8y ago
    Sure. They could also let you easily cancel online. But they don't want to. And if you refuse to pay for a subscription contract you entered, but didn't cancel, you owe them.
sakarisson 8y ago
From a legal perspective, would it be enough to send them an e-mail telling them that you no longer want to subscribe to the services before pulling the plug?
- mehrdadn 8y ago
  Probably depends on whether you email an appropriate address?

chrischen 8y ago

I'd also like to add that despite the negative publicity PayPal gets from the merchant side, it's also preferred over credit cards by merchants for better handling of "disputes". Some consider paypal to be archaic, but it's bleeding edge payment tech when placed alongside traditional credit cards.

time0ut 8y ago
Years ago I used PayPal to pay for an on demand server that was advertised to be ready within an hour. Twenty four hours and zero servers later, I had already gone to a competitor and asked for a refund. The company refused and PayPal sided with them. American Express sided with me. I closed my PayPal account forever that day. Now we have even better tools available for subscriptions. Check out privacy card.
- jammygit 8y ago
  The privacy card privacy policy isn't very comforting. I assume its partially boilerplate but it did keep me from signing up a while ago
- chrischen 8y ago
  In my experience with credit cards they almost always side with the customer for small charges, and for extremely large charges (and if you're a big enough company) they side with the merchant. I had case where free credits were offered for a cloud provider, but they decided to bill me anyways. Chase decided to validate the charges, and it was clear through multiple calls each agent was making things up about why it was validated (They would give different reasons anytime, from how I worded "free credits"). In the end the cloud provider admitted to the mistake and ended up siding with me, despite chase siding against me (they're supposed to be on the consumer's behalf). So I think in your case Amex probably didn't even consider or evaluate the terms of the sale—they just refunded you because it was within some parameters. This of course can work for or against you depending on the situation.
  - time0ut 8y ago