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Aside from the benefits to daily commuters there is demonstrated demanded for travel among the west coast that can be satisfied by this. How many people fly bet

by max76 8y ago

Aside from the benefits to daily commuters there is demonstrated demanded for travel among the west coast that can be satisfied by this. How many people fly between SF and LA every day? There are large number of short flights between all of the west coast cities. A train would be cheaper. Current security practices would make the train faster for short travel as well. Increasing human bandwidth between our cities will be very valuable for the economy.

jmspring 8y ago
Given the need to get to an airport early for security/etc, time of flight, time to get bags/transport/etc upon landing -- unless it is a business trip that is a day or two long, driving between the Bay Area and LA area isn't really that much longer.
- max76 8y ago
  Still, SFO and LAX is the most traveled route in the US, with 30,000 flights in 2015 [0]. If HSR is viable anywhere in the US it’s this route. [0] https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/07/05/americans-fly-lax-sfo-more-than-any-other-flight-path-in-the-u-s/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/07/05/americans-fly-lax-sfo...
  - wl 8y ago
    I wonder how many passengers on that route are on connecting flights. HSR is likely to be an alternative for those who have LA or SF as destinations, but not for people traveling onward.
    - Gibbon1 8y ago
      Granted this was 20 years ago, but I used to fly a fair amount out of the Bay Area. I don't remember ever catching a connecting flight at LAX. Usually it was one of Denver, Chicago, Salt Lake City, Atlanta[1] or Las Vegas. One of the arguments I did read that was convincing is that Bay Area and LA basin airports are near capacity. Diverting passengers from the LA to Bay Area route would free up capacity for long distance flights. Thus alleviate the need to expand those airports. In the discussions I've had it's come up that expanding airports in built up areas is massively expensive. They want to add a third runway to Heathrow at a cost of £14 billion. That's 25% of the projected cost of CHSR. [1] When you die, no matter if you go to heaven or hell you'll transfer through Atlanta.
      - wl 8y ago
        The reason I was wondering is because I found I was transferring through LAX more than leaving the airport. Atlanta, of course, is a stopover almost every time I go to the South.
        Gibbon1 8y ago
        I suspect it may depend strongly on where you are going. However when I did fly I occasionally went to a client in LA. Would fly in the morning and fly out same day usually. Back then from home in SJ to client in LA was about 2-3 hours all things included. If I had to do it via high speed rail probably would rent a hotel in Palmdale and ride the rest of the way in the morning. Then straight back the next evening. Unless ticking made that $$$
    - max76 8y ago
      I don’t know why I did the math to answer your question, but I did. Please don’t upvote me, I don’t want encouragement for this behavior. Apparently 1% of the total traffic in LAX in 2015 was for connecting flights to SFO [0]. Assuming this ratio didn’t change much in the following two year... considering LAX’s total traffic for 2017 was 84M [1] this means 840K people transferred from LAX to SFO. During 2017 3.5M people traveled from LAX to SFO.[2] This means about 24% of the traffic to SFO from LAX was for transferring flights. My numbers are clearly estimates because I couldn’t find a good record of every passenger itenary in the US which is what would be required for more the most accurate data. This also doesn’t cover passengers using SFO as a transfer station to LAX. Interesting enough JFK to LAX has recently become the most traveled route in the US with 30K more passengers a year than LAX to SFO, which contradicts my previous statements. [2] It’s possible LAX to SFO has more total flights, if you assume shorter flights use smaller airplanes. [0] https://www.anna.aero/2016/05/25/transfer-traffic-at-top-four-us-airports-analysed/ https://www.anna.aero/2016/05/25/transfer-traffic-at-top-fou... [1] https://www.lawa.org/-/media/lawa-web/statistics/market-share-statistics/m_share-2017.ashx?la=en&hash=C79B8AB1E2C0DE0C094A200E4010E8D6A2DBC519 https://www.lawa.org/-/media/lawa-web/statistics/market-shar... [2]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_passenger_air_routes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_passenger_ai...
- lozaning 8y ago
  Do yourself a favor if you havent already and go get TSA precheck. I havent shown up to an airport more than 30 minutes before boarding in years. Depending on the airport, I might not even show up until 10 minutes before boarding. Both SNA and TUS are both amazing for this.
  - jmspring 8y ago
    I have Global Entry -- which gives precheck, but still get to the airport early. There have been times -- SeaTac is notable for this -- where the Precheck line is longer/slower than the regular line.

by max76 8y ago

jmspring 8y ago

Given the need to get to an airport early for security/etc, time of flight, time to get bags/transport/etc upon landing -- unless it is a business trip that is a day or two long, driving between the Bay Area and LA area isn't really that much longer.

max76 8y ago
Still, SFO and LAX is the most traveled route in the US, with 30,000 flights in 2015 [0]. If HSR is viable anywhere in the US it’s this route. [0] https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/07/05/americans-fly-lax-sfo-more-than-any-other-flight-path-in-the-u-s/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/07/05/americans-fly-lax-sfo...
- wl 8y ago
  I wonder how many passengers on that route are on connecting flights. HSR is likely to be an alternative for those who have LA or SF as destinations, but not for people traveling onward.
  - Gibbon1 8y ago
    Granted this was 20 years ago, but I used to fly a fair amount out of the Bay Area. I don't remember ever catching a connecting flight at LAX. Usually it was one of Denver, Chicago, Salt Lake City, Atlanta[1] or Las Vegas. One of the arguments I did read that was convincing is that Bay Area and LA basin airports are near capacity. Diverting passengers from the LA to Bay Area route would free up capacity for long distance flights. Thus alleviate the need to expand those airports. In the discussions I've had it's come up that expanding airports in built up areas is massively expensive. They want to add a third runway to Heathrow at a cost of £14 billion. That's 25% of the projected cost of CHSR. [1] When you die, no matter if you go to heaven or hell you'll transfer through Atlanta.
    - wl 8y ago
      The reason I was wondering is because I found I was transferring through LAX more than leaving the airport. Atlanta, of course, is a stopover almost every time I go to the South.
      - Gibbon1 8y ago
        I suspect it may depend strongly on where you are going. However when I did fly I occasionally went to a client in LA. Would fly in the morning and fly out same day usually. Back then from home in SJ to client in LA was about 2-3 hours all things included. If I had to do it via high speed rail probably would rent a hotel in Palmdale and ride the rest of the way in the morning. Then straight back the next evening. Unless ticking made that $$$
  - max76 8y ago
    I don’t know why I did the math to answer your question, but I did. Please don’t upvote me, I don’t want encouragement for this behavior. Apparently 1% of the total traffic in LAX in 2015 was for connecting flights to SFO [0]. Assuming this ratio didn’t change much in the following two year... considering LAX’s total traffic for 2017 was 84M [1] this means 840K people transferred from LAX to SFO. During 2017 3.5M people traveled from LAX to SFO.[2] This means about 24% of the traffic to SFO from LAX was for transferring flights. My numbers are clearly estimates because I couldn’t find a good record of every passenger itenary in the US which is what would be required for more the most accurate data. This also doesn’t cover passengers using SFO as a transfer station to LAX. Interesting enough JFK to LAX has recently become the most traveled route in the US with 30K more passengers a year than LAX to SFO, which contradicts my previous statements. [2] It’s possible LAX to SFO has more total flights, if you assume shorter flights use smaller airplanes. [0] https://www.anna.aero/2016/05/25/transfer-traffic-at-top-four-us-airports-analysed/ https://www.anna.aero/2016/05/25/transfer-traffic-at-top-fou... [1] https://www.lawa.org/-/media/lawa-web/statistics/market-share-statistics/m_share-2017.ashx?la=en&hash=C79B8AB1E2C0DE0C094A200E4010E8D6A2DBC519 https://www.lawa.org/-/media/lawa-web/statistics/market-shar... [2]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_passenger_air_routes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_passenger_ai...
lozaning 8y ago
Do yourself a favor if you havent already and go get TSA precheck. I havent shown up to an airport more than 30 minutes before boarding in years. Depending on the airport, I might not even show up until 10 minutes before boarding. Both SNA and TUS are both amazing for this.
- jmspring 8y ago
  I have Global Entry -- which gives precheck, but still get to the airport early. There have been times -- SeaTac is notable for this -- where the Precheck line is longer/slower than the regular line.