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I've seen patents that hinged on a single line of Javascript code because it was used in a context that has never been patented before and no prior art. Not on

I've seen patents that hinged on a single line of Javascript code because it was used in a context that has never been patented before and no prior art. Not only was it submitted, but it was accepted and is a patent now.

jeremyjh 8y ago
It really means very little that a patent was granted. They do not do an exhaustive search for prior art, or validation of relevance. Until it has been litigated no one really knows which patents can survive litigation.
- tyre 8y ago
  But if you’re a company sued asking for less than what the cost of fighting would be, it’s in your interest to cut a deal. In that case, whether the patent is valid or not doesn’t matter.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > But if you’re a company sued asking for less than what the cost of fighting would be, it’s in your interest to cut a deal. Or, it's in your interest to fight and make it as expensive as possible for the person making the claim to prosecute it, if you have a good case, because while it's an iterated game, not a single round, and you need to make sure the next however many potential trolls (whether the same with a new claim or a different one whose seen how you react) don't try to shake you down. To quote Kipling: “But we've proved it again and again, / That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld / You never get rid of the Dane.”
    - jlokier 8y ago
      Realistically, most small companies can't afford to fight a large one over a patent infringement claim, regardless of the merits of the case. It might be worth a couple of rounds of letters saying "we don't believe your claims to be valid", but if the aggressor continues into litigation, the legal fees can quickly become overwhelming. As in more than the defendant's business is worth. Individuals writing open source software (such as compilers) have no chance, as most of them are not wealthy, and their personal assets are on the line. If you're unluckly enough to be in the situation the parent describes, where an aggressor will keep coming for more if you capitulate on the first one, there's probably no way to win. Sometimes the rational action is a painful one: Completely shut down whatever it is you're doing, and find something else to do instead. I'm familiar with projects that have shut down, some having been published and then (sadly) removed from public availability, over patent issues where it wasn't clear the aggressor's claims had merit, but they couldn't take the risk. Several in fields I wanted to work in. The effect I see is development paused for a decade or two until it's safe to resume. I suppose you might find a "no win, no fee" lawyer, but are those common in this situation?
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > Realistically, most small companies can't afford to fight a large one over a patent infringement claim Sure; the hypothetical was “if you're a company”, not “if you're a much smaller company”. Power assymetry definitely affects the options here.

jeremyjh 8y ago

It really means very little that a patent was granted. They do not do an exhaustive search for prior art, or validation of relevance. Until it has been litigated no one really knows which patents can survive litigation.

tyre 8y ago
But if you’re a company sued asking for less than what the cost of fighting would be, it’s in your interest to cut a deal. In that case, whether the patent is valid or not doesn’t matter.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > But if you’re a company sued asking for less than what the cost of fighting would be, it’s in your interest to cut a deal. Or, it's in your interest to fight and make it as expensive as possible for the person making the claim to prosecute it, if you have a good case, because while it's an iterated game, not a single round, and you need to make sure the next however many potential trolls (whether the same with a new claim or a different one whose seen how you react) don't try to shake you down. To quote Kipling: “But we've proved it again and again, / That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld / You never get rid of the Dane.”
  - jlokier 8y ago
    Realistically, most small companies can't afford to fight a large one over a patent infringement claim, regardless of the merits of the case. It might be worth a couple of rounds of letters saying "we don't believe your claims to be valid", but if the aggressor continues into litigation, the legal fees can quickly become overwhelming. As in more than the defendant's business is worth. Individuals writing open source software (such as compilers) have no chance, as most of them are not wealthy, and their personal assets are on the line. If you're unluckly enough to be in the situation the parent describes, where an aggressor will keep coming for more if you capitulate on the first one, there's probably no way to win. Sometimes the rational action is a painful one: Completely shut down whatever it is you're doing, and find something else to do instead. I'm familiar with projects that have shut down, some having been published and then (sadly) removed from public availability, over patent issues where it wasn't clear the aggressor's claims had merit, but they couldn't take the risk. Several in fields I wanted to work in. The effect I see is development paused for a decade or two until it's safe to resume. I suppose you might find a "no win, no fee" lawyer, but are those common in this situation?
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > Realistically, most small companies can't afford to fight a large one over a patent infringement claim Sure; the hypothetical was “if you're a company”, not “if you're a much smaller company”. Power assymetry definitely affects the options here.