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Negotiations fail to come to a close due to both parties, not one party. Saying one party is "stupid", has been "hurting people" and "got nothing" is far from t

Negotiations fail to come to a close due to both parties, not one party. Saying one party is "stupid", has been "hurting people" and "got nothing" is far from the full picture. Both sides are attempting to "force [their] will". What may seem reasonable to one party may seem unreasonable to the other, whether or not either party shows it outwardly.

mfoy_ 8y ago
Yes and no. In this case, Trump is basically holding government hostage. If congress doesn't want a wall, he cannot force a wall on them. EDIT: Better yet, according to that logic, a mugging is just a failed negotiation. If the victim was just more forthcoming with their money, it wouldn't have been a problem!
- 64738 8y ago
  But the congressional/democrat leaders are on record from just a few years discussing the importance of border security including barriers. Now that Trump wants that, too, even the idea of doing so is considered immoral. For a lot of people (obviously, not all, and I have no clue as to a percentage), it really has absolutely zero to do a wall or barrier, and it is completely about thwarting the president. The behavior of both parties is starting to disgust me.
  - alphabettsy 8y ago
    I think his rhetoric has a lot to do with how people view it now. But the funding that you’re talking about to repair and expand existing barriers was already used and the barrier exists to my knowledge. Dems also offered billions for immigration and border security that he rejected because he specifically wants a wall, despite the fact that it won’t have the greatest impact which is visa overstays.
    - ramblerouser 8y ago
      Democrats dont want to stop visa overstays either (they want to abolish ICE), so how is that an argument against the wall?
the_gastropod 8y ago
Ahhhh, the classic "Both sides"ism. Both sides are not responsible for this. One party is almost exclusively at fault (in fact, 2 men are almost entirely responsible: Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump). The "deal" the President just made is the same deal the Democrats proposed 35 days ago. It's the same bill the Senate passed unanimously in December. Mitch McConnell refused to have a vote on the bill, because Donald wouldn't sign it. Do not, for a second, pretend both sides are at all equally responsible for this mess.

mfoy_ 8y ago

Yes and no. In this case, Trump is basically holding government hostage. If congress doesn't want a wall, he cannot force a wall on them. EDIT: Better yet, according to that logic, a mugging is just a failed negotiation. If the victim was just more forthcoming with their money, it wouldn't have been a problem!

64738 8y ago
But the congressional/democrat leaders are on record from just a few years discussing the importance of border security including barriers. Now that Trump wants that, too, even the idea of doing so is considered immoral. For a lot of people (obviously, not all, and I have no clue as to a percentage), it really has absolutely zero to do a wall or barrier, and it is completely about thwarting the president. The behavior of both parties is starting to disgust me.
- alphabettsy 8y ago
  I think his rhetoric has a lot to do with how people view it now. But the funding that you’re talking about to repair and expand existing barriers was already used and the barrier exists to my knowledge. Dems also offered billions for immigration and border security that he rejected because he specifically wants a wall, despite the fact that it won’t have the greatest impact which is visa overstays.
  - ramblerouser 8y ago
    Democrats dont want to stop visa overstays either (they want to abolish ICE), so how is that an argument against the wall?

the_gastropod 8y ago

Ahhhh, the classic "Both sides"ism. Both sides are not responsible for this. One party is almost exclusively at fault (in fact, 2 men are almost entirely responsible: Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump). The "deal" the President just made is the same deal the Democrats proposed 35 days ago. It's the same bill the Senate passed unanimously in December. Mitch McConnell refused to have a vote on the bill, because Donald wouldn't sign it. Do not, for a second, pretend both sides are at all equally responsible for this mess.