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I know it's only an anecdote, but myself (and many other colleagues) in Boston switched to periodically using rideshares to commute due to the decline in public

I know it's only an anecdote, but myself (and many other colleagues) in Boston switched to periodically using rideshares to commute due to the decline in public transit quality. The tech boom in the area completely overloaded the system, and when you combine it with the rampant corruption behind the MBTA, this was inevitable. Uber and Lyft have not been the best actors, but someone was going to step in and profit off of public transit's incompetence here. Even prior to the prevalence of rideshares, Boston was dealing with absurd corruption in attempting to expand on the public transit systems. See: Green Line Extension project

thisisweirdok 8y ago
Unfortunately this only exacerbates the problem as ridership declines. I know students in Boston who have literally never taken public transportation. 5 years ago this would be unheard of.
- gdulli 8y ago
  I have friends and co-workers with free access to the MBTA because it's paid for by our employer. I see them pay for ridesharing when the free public transportation is a reasonable option for the same trip. I see some people paying their own money to commute to work every day when they live inside the city and could be doing it for free. People just want to take the path of least resistance and there's a lot of young tech workers with low expenses and high salaries who don't think about the long-term impact of the money they're spending on unnecessary conveniences instead of saving. The real problem is that complaints about a shard public resource grow disproportionately like a meme and people codify that public transportation is terrible and unreliable, when in reality it's imperfect and that's an exaggeration.
basil-rash 8y ago
I've found that if you have more than 2 people (sometimes even just 2, if you pool), it is often cheaper and faster to take an Uber. Quite pathetic on MBTA's side.
- GlickWick 8y ago
  The MBTA is also just beyond ridiculous. I work (in the Seaport) approximately 3.9 miles from my residence (Somerville). I can walk home faster than the T will take me there, and Uber/Lyft will also get me there ~4x faster than the T. Using Line/Pool and subsidized carpooling you can easily beat the $2-3 T fare. If you rely on the Commuter Rail for any step, Uber/Lyft crushes it in terms of price.
dhh2106 8y ago
Agreed. This feels like a classic causation v correlation problem. Of course when a substitute improves, some people will switch. However, the root cause is the declining quality and lack of improvements to the system that even gives a substitute the chance to compete. I honestly don't understand how 100 years ago nyc was able to build an expansive subway system and today it takes decades to add a new station. I know it's a combination of land costs, labor costs, corruption, regulation, underground congestion (and that the original lines were built by private companies) but I still don't really understand the situation.
- DontGiveTwoFlux 8y ago
  My general impression is that worker safety was pretty much disregarded compared to modern standards. A quick search turned up this piece[1] on 16 deaths around 1904 during construction of a NYC subway line. There are famous pictures such as this one of construction of high rises in New York[2] without any safety equipment whatsoever. But it was built in 14 months! All that safety gear is expensive and slows down construction. In climbing, we often joke 'no belay, no delay', because of how fast you can climb when you don't take the time to fix your ropes, etc. [3] [1] https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-died-during-the-construction-of-the-New-York-City-subway-system https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-died-during-the-constr... [2] https://www.google.com/search?q=empire+state+building+construction+pictures&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=zL2IEaI_HTr6qM%253A%252CWmlUwbdST_H3CM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kTA8aR3Mh-nwjJkAvyKm5ewle-mYw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLpIDf24ngAhXqV98KHUlhA5EQ9QEwAnoECAQQCA#imgrc=zL2IEaI_HTr6qM https://www.google.com/search?q=empire+state+building+constr...: [3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urRVZ4SW7WU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urRVZ4SW7WU
fatnoah 8y ago
>I know it's only an anecdote, but myself (and many other colleagues) in Boston switched to periodically using rideshares to commute due to the decline in public transit quality. I've been riding the T in Boston for the better part of 20 years now. My usage of rideshares is more related to convenience and timing than any change in MBTA service. A lot of trips I do require going into/out of the core city to make a lateral move, or to coordinate multiple modes with different headways, e.g. 5 minutes for subway, 10 minutes for one bus, 25 for the next. The result is that time in motion is similar to the rideshare, but I spend an equal amount of time waiting for a connection. I'd really be curious to see the effect on trips that already have a direct or reasonably efficient multi-step itinerary, e.g. Davis to Charles/MGH, Sullivan to Harvard, etc.
dopylitty 8y ago
Technically Uber and Lyft aren't profiting. They're burning VC money.
- GlickWick 8y ago
  I think that's just pedantic, to be honest. The people behind those companies and those who work there are certainly making a ton of cash. Even if the companies go bankrupt, everyone involved (except for the VCs) will have been enriched by the product.
gdulli 8y ago
I've commuted solely by public transportation in Boston for the last 8 years. Before that I lived elsewhere and commuted by car daily. While the public transportation has occasional delays and outages, it's overall reasonable and the variance and displeasure I experienced with driving were far greater.
GabrielF00 8y ago
I only use Uber/Lyft in Boston for routes where the T would be inconvenient or if the weather is really bad and I don't want to walk home from the T station. I just hate Uber Pool and Lyft Line - the routes they take are often side streets with lots of congestion and turns, there's a lot of frustration when you're almost to your destination or to a major road and then the driver turns around to pick up another passenger. Drivers often play music I find annoying.

thisisweirdok 8y ago

Unfortunately this only exacerbates the problem as ridership declines. I know students in Boston who have literally never taken public transportation. 5 years ago this would be unheard of.

gdulli 8y ago
I have friends and co-workers with free access to the MBTA because it's paid for by our employer. I see them pay for ridesharing when the free public transportation is a reasonable option for the same trip. I see some people paying their own money to commute to work every day when they live inside the city and could be doing it for free. People just want to take the path of least resistance and there's a lot of young tech workers with low expenses and high salaries who don't think about the long-term impact of the money they're spending on unnecessary conveniences instead of saving. The real problem is that complaints about a shard public resource grow disproportionately like a meme and people codify that public transportation is terrible and unreliable, when in reality it's imperfect and that's an exaggeration.

basil-rash 8y ago

I've found that if you have more than 2 people (sometimes even just 2, if you pool), it is often cheaper and faster to take an Uber. Quite pathetic on MBTA's side.

GlickWick 8y ago
The MBTA is also just beyond ridiculous. I work (in the Seaport) approximately 3.9 miles from my residence (Somerville). I can walk home faster than the T will take me there, and Uber/Lyft will also get me there ~4x faster than the T. Using Line/Pool and subsidized carpooling you can easily beat the $2-3 T fare. If you rely on the Commuter Rail for any step, Uber/Lyft crushes it in terms of price.

dhh2106 8y ago

Agreed. This feels like a classic causation v correlation problem. Of course when a substitute improves, some people will switch. However, the root cause is the declining quality and lack of improvements to the system that even gives a substitute the chance to compete. I honestly don't understand how 100 years ago nyc was able to build an expansive subway system and today it takes decades to add a new station. I know it's a combination of land costs, labor costs, corruption, regulation, underground congestion (and that the original lines were built by private companies) but I still don't really understand the situation.

DontGiveTwoFlux 8y ago
My general impression is that worker safety was pretty much disregarded compared to modern standards. A quick search turned up this piece[1] on 16 deaths around 1904 during construction of a NYC subway line. There are famous pictures such as this one of construction of high rises in New York[2] without any safety equipment whatsoever. But it was built in 14 months! All that safety gear is expensive and slows down construction. In climbing, we often joke 'no belay, no delay', because of how fast you can climb when you don't take the time to fix your ropes, etc. [3] [1] https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-died-during-the-construction-of-the-New-York-City-subway-system https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-died-during-the-constr... [2] https://www.google.com/search?q=empire+state+building+construction+pictures&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=zL2IEaI_HTr6qM%253A%252CWmlUwbdST_H3CM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kTA8aR3Mh-nwjJkAvyKm5ewle-mYw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLpIDf24ngAhXqV98KHUlhA5EQ9QEwAnoECAQQCA#imgrc=zL2IEaI_HTr6qM https://www.google.com/search?q=empire+state+building+constr...: [3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urRVZ4SW7WU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urRVZ4SW7WU

fatnoah 8y ago

>I know it's only an anecdote, but myself (and many other colleagues) in Boston switched to periodically using rideshares to commute due to the decline in public transit quality. I've been riding the T in Boston for the better part of 20 years now. My usage of rideshares is more related to convenience and timing than any change in MBTA service. A lot of trips I do require going into/out of the core city to make a lateral move, or to coordinate multiple modes with different headways, e.g. 5 minutes for subway, 10 minutes for one bus, 25 for the next. The result is that time in motion is similar to the rideshare, but I spend an equal amount of time waiting for a connection. I'd really be curious to see the effect on trips that already have a direct or reasonably efficient multi-step itinerary, e.g. Davis to Charles/MGH, Sullivan to Harvard, etc.

dopylitty 8y ago

Technically Uber and Lyft aren't profiting. They're burning VC money.

GlickWick 8y ago
I think that's just pedantic, to be honest. The people behind those companies and those who work there are certainly making a ton of cash. Even if the companies go bankrupt, everyone involved (except for the VCs) will have been enriched by the product.

gdulli 8y ago

I've commuted solely by public transportation in Boston for the last 8 years. Before that I lived elsewhere and commuted by car daily. While the public transportation has occasional delays and outages, it's overall reasonable and the variance and displeasure I experienced with driving were far greater.

GabrielF00 8y ago

I only use Uber/Lyft in Boston for routes where the T would be inconvenient or if the weather is really bad and I don't want to walk home from the T station. I just hate Uber Pool and Lyft Line - the routes they take are often side streets with lots of congestion and turns, there's a lot of frustration when you're almost to your destination or to a major road and then the driver turns around to pick up another passenger. Drivers often play music I find annoying.