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We need to end socialism for cars, but I think this way of going about it is probably counterproductive. Here in Amsterdam we also have an increase in car-free

by avar 8y ago

We need to end socialism for cars, but I think this way of going about it is probably counterproductive. Here in Amsterdam we also have an increase in car-free zones, but one effect of that is just to increase car parking pressure in the neighborhoods of those of us who live adjacent to the center. I think the real solution is to end socialism for cars. This problem will solve itself as soon as the land being used by parking spaces isn't specifically zoned, and thus would need to compete price-wise with using the same amount of land for residential developments or shops. It's also interesting to see how this breaks down as a political issue. E.g. in Amsterdam the generally free market party (VVD) has a notable break from their "their market will take care of it" policy of wanting more government-subsidized car parking, v.s. the leftist parties.

jpmoyn 8y ago
I highly doubt throwing this issue at the free market will result in less car traffic in the city.
- avar 8y ago
  Why not? E.g. now the market price for where I live is to a first approximation something like 2000 EUR/month for an apartment on a single floor in a 4 floor house. Meanwhile I can simply apply for a parking space right outside my place, and only need to pay something like a 250 EUR/yr road tax (depending on vehicle & weight etc.). That's a flat fee for the entirety of Nord-Holland (my "state"), I'd pay nothing for parking other than needing to apply. Assuming a parking space is 6x3m = 18m^2 then 4x of those add up to 72m^2, a typical size for an apartment around here. So if someone parking a car in a 18m^2 parking space had to compete with the market for real estate they'd need to pay 2000 EUR/month for parking their car, because we could otherwise build housing there. That's before you even get to the problem that the fact that you can only build up to 4 floors around here is also an artificial government restraint, so the true market price of a 18m^2 parking spot is way more than 2000 EUR/month in the center of Amsterdam. There's no reason to ban cars. You just need to make them pay a fair price for the land they're using and the problem will take care of itself.
- CalRobert 8y ago
  If I were allowed to buy the parking spots on my street and build flats I would do it in an instant. Drivers get parking welfare from walking and cycling taxpayers and are blind to it. Not to mention that bearing the cost of a million dead poeple a year would affect behaviour a bit.

by avar 8y ago

jpmoyn 8y ago

I highly doubt throwing this issue at the free market will result in less car traffic in the city.

avar 8y ago
Why not? E.g. now the market price for where I live is to a first approximation something like 2000 EUR/month for an apartment on a single floor in a 4 floor house. Meanwhile I can simply apply for a parking space right outside my place, and only need to pay something like a 250 EUR/yr road tax (depending on vehicle & weight etc.). That's a flat fee for the entirety of Nord-Holland (my "state"), I'd pay nothing for parking other than needing to apply. Assuming a parking space is 6x3m = 18m^2 then 4x of those add up to 72m^2, a typical size for an apartment around here. So if someone parking a car in a 18m^2 parking space had to compete with the market for real estate they'd need to pay 2000 EUR/month for parking their car, because we could otherwise build housing there. That's before you even get to the problem that the fact that you can only build up to 4 floors around here is also an artificial government restraint, so the true market price of a 18m^2 parking spot is way more than 2000 EUR/month in the center of Amsterdam. There's no reason to ban cars. You just need to make them pay a fair price for the land they're using and the problem will take care of itself.
CalRobert 8y ago
If I were allowed to buy the parking spots on my street and build flats I would do it in an instant. Drivers get parking welfare from walking and cycling taxpayers and are blind to it. Not to mention that bearing the cost of a million dead poeple a year would affect behaviour a bit.