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A company will fire you with absolutely no hesitation or mercy if they feel it is good for their bottom line, with no respect for your personal well-being. Howe

A company will fire you with absolutely no hesitation or mercy if they feel it is good for their bottom line, with no respect for your personal well-being. However, I feel that informing your boss that you're quitting is a reasonably easy thing to do which could help real people at that company and seems like common decency to me

masklinn 8y ago
> informing your boss that you're quitting is a reasonably easy thing to do which could help real people at that company and seems like common decency to me Decency and respect in general is a two-way street. If your boss is an asshole and the company doesn't give a single lonely shit you don't owe it "common decency". It's not like that sort of company puts a single dime in "common decency" when time comes for layoffs or firing people, instead they get company security and their stuff shoved in a cardboard box. If the company is decent and you're quitting because you've found a great job or you think you deserve a raise and they don't agree, sure put in your two weeks and everything. The article specifically talks about bad bosses though, so that probably ain't the subject.
- Nuzzerino 8y ago
  > Decency and respect in general is a two-way street. If your boss is an asshole and the company doesn't give a single lonely shit you don't owe it "common decency". People seem to forget that quitting with no notice also screws one's co-workers. And often times it's the "innocent" co-workers that are affected the worst. I've learned far too late in life that there is never a justification for being a jerk, especially as the unintended and unwanted side effects will reap subtle mayhem around you.
- dfxm12 8y ago
  Don't equate "your boss" with "the company". You're absolutely right, your boss could be the reason you're quitting, but by and large, your boss is probably just another cog in the same machine that is causing you grief as well.
  - masklinn 8y ago
    If your boss is a great person, you probably know about it even if they get put in a bad way by the company and that's got consequences for you. If you're getting no respect back for the respect you put in, and you're not quitting despite your boss, the distinction is immaterial.
- throwaway5752 8y ago
  "Decency and respect in general is a two-way street" No it isn't. Decency and respect is a way you choose to conduct yourself. I treat everyone with decency and respect. I choose not to associate with people that are immoral or toxic, but I will treat them with decency and respect because I will not let someone else's conduct dictate how I act. If your boss is bad, resign as soon as possible with 2 weeks notice and wipe your hands of it.
  - adfm 8y ago
    This is what is referred to as the Golden Rule. https://www.gotquestions.org/Golden-Rule.html https://www.gotquestions.org/Golden-Rule.html It's an interesting hack on quid pro quo that I recommend to everyone.
    - username223 8y ago
      Then you can upgrade to the Categorical Imperative: "do unto others as they have done to you" becomes "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," which becomes "do what you would want all others to do." It's subtle, but important.
      - naniwaduni 8y ago
        It's a subtle change with great appeal to universalizing thinkers, but one which, as commonly formulated, makes many suggestions that seem intuitively wrong without adding a lot of qualifiers, and at that point you've just punted the task of formalizing ethics one level up.
        username223 8y ago
        Can you elaborate? As far as I understand it, the difference between the Golden Rule and the Categorical Imperative is acting in ways that don't involve reciprocity. The former is a rule against stabbing other people; the latter is also a rule that people going around stabbing themselves would be a bad idea.
- briandear 8y ago
  It’s called “character.” It does matter. The way I choose to conduct myself is a reflection of me, not a reflection of the failings of those with whom I deal. Treating everyone as you wish to be treated is good policy even if they don’t do the same for you.
- yingw787 8y ago
  I disagree; I and a few other good coworkers were managed by a pretty horrible boss (pretty horrible as in he is known by name as a horrible person to work for by multiple corporate HR departments and recruiting agencies in our metropolitan area who all wanted to poach us), and I think we all gave our two weeks notices when we could. You should always act in a way that optimizes your own desirability as an employee or a person to be associated with in order to keep your options open. It's very rare to find yourself on a hill worth dying on, and to have that hill be clearly seen by others. For me, that standard is not letting an employee go to a funeral, or be at the birth of your child, or something timeboxed and will cause similar extreme emotional/mental pain and duress. Of course, the flip side is to not have your internal judgments skewed by constant interactions with said boss or bosses. I'm guessing that's how you become a bad boss or employee over time.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  Decency and respect in general is a two-way street. No. If you have a morality which says you can act as badly as the worst life throws at you, then your moral conduct isn't stable. You can't have a morality like that, and have something like human rights. Human rights are supposed to be inherent. You can't take them away simply because you're ticked off, or you're practicing tit-for-tat. You can't simply nominate yourself as judge, jury, and executioner. If you would advocate for human dignity, you not only have to advocate for yourself. You have to do it for others. You have to advocate for human dignity for people you do not like, and for people who you might find offensive or who may even have offended you. If you don't, then you don't believe in human dignity as a principle. You just believe in dignity for yourself and what you can get through whatever power happens to be in your reach.
- white-flame 8y ago
  > If your boss is an asshole and the company doesn't give a single lonely shit you don't owe it "common decency". The important word here is "common". Precisely and pedantically, if you think it's only earned by some, then decency is uncommon for you.
grigjd3 8y ago
It's easy when your boss is reasonable. I've gotten a verbal lashing from my boss before when I was promoted out of his department.
Shivetya 8y ago
well in my case and others, turning in a formal notice can mean access to unused vacation pay and even benefits for the next thirty days. the examples used in this article were all poor. they picked obviously underpaid hourly positions where walk outs and no shows are not an uncommon exit method. hell in some areas and jobs you can walk out one month and get hired a few weeks or months down the road
- le-mark 8y ago
  Hell, some companies will even walk you out (terminate, fire) when you give notice, and deny you the two weeks earning you would've made. I've seen this happen at multiple companies, to multiple people, myself included.
stronglikedan 8y ago
While I generally agree, I can imagine that there are some people out there that have been treated so poorly by their bosses, that they either feel it would not be a productive conversation, or they are just flat out afraid of their bosses reaction (and rightly so), or (as in the case of the article) they feel that extreme action is the only course of action that get their point across. Although, to that last point, one of the bosses at my job (but not my department) is like that, and he still cannot figure out why people up and quit on him, even though he's just a complete shit-head. I must admit to a enjoying healthy dose of schadenfreude whenever it happens.
darawk 8y ago
> A company will fire you with absolutely no hesitation or mercy if they feel it is good for their bottom line You can also quit with no hesitation or mercy. However, basically no employers on earth will simply stop sending you your paychecks and let it sort itself out, office space style. Which is the equivalent here of 'ghosting' someone.
- saidajigumi 8y ago
  What, you mean like the US Federal Government?
  - mesozoic 8y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpaOy8b8X6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpaOy8b8X6A
droithomme 8y ago
> informing your boss that you're quitting is a reasonably easy thing to do which could help real people at that company and seems like common decency to me Last three times I gave written two week notice I was detained immediately until a security guard could search my pockets and bag, confiscate my company id, and escort me out of the building. All times I was on very good terms with management up to the minute before that. "I regret to inform you that I must terminate my employment, effective immediately." is the phrase I use now, mailed Saturday morning from the post office so it gets there Monday morning. Friday I stay late, clear out all my personal belongings, and commit-in all my in-progress projects.
- zdragnar 8y ago
  What types of companies were these? I've never had this happen to me, though I've also intentionally avoided overly-corporate settings.
  - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
    It's pretty common for Sysad types. Sure, the damage could already have been done, but it makes management feel better that they can eject you right then and there.
  - ultrasaurus 8y ago
    It's not uncommon is sales (not stealing the rolodex) or if you're leaving for a competitor.
stcredzero 8y ago
However, I feel that informing your boss that you're quitting is a reasonably easy thing to do which could help real people at that company and seems like common decency to me There is indeed a common decency regression in the current tech workforce. It used to be, that not making an appointment, not making a phone call appointment, and the like were simply not done when it came to job interviews and the hiring process. Lots of tech professionals (as corroborated by people saying so here on HN) seem to think it's okay...stuff happens...maybe they just got busy. Hiring and job interviews are serious business. People's livelihoods are an important issue. It's not the kind of place where it's okay...stuff happens...maybe they just got busy. An attitude like that just strikes me as lacking empathy and awareness of how one is affecting other people. That's not how I think good people behave. (EDIT: I'm not talking about interviewees blowing off the call. I'm talking about interviewers! With great power comes great responsibility.)
- michaelt 8y ago
  As an interviewer, I try to apply the robustness principle: Be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from others. After all, if I was scheduled to interview someone and they don't turn up, that just means I get a free hour to work on something more interesting!
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    As an interviewer, I try to apply the robustness principle: Be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from others. As an interviewer, you are in a position of power. You have more responsibility for the treatment of the other party. My experience in the Bay Area is of interviewers blowing off phone appointments off.
intopieces 8y ago
I agree. A very simple “I choose to terminate my employment with your company effective xx/xx/xxxx” is much more respectable. No need to give a reason, just state the facts and move on. Ghosting seems really immature, like the person doesn’t want to face up to their actions. As well, I was always taught to never burn a bridge because you have no idea who you’re going to see again in the future. Impressions matter.

masklinn 8y ago

> informing your boss that you're quitting is a reasonably easy thing to do which could help real people at that company and seems like common decency to me Decency and respect in general is a two-way street. If your boss is an asshole and the company doesn't give a single lonely shit you don't owe it "common decency". It's not like that sort of company puts a single dime in "common decency" when time comes for layoffs or firing people, instead they get company security and their stuff shoved in a cardboard box. If the company is decent and you're quitting because you've found a great job or you think you deserve a raise and they don't agree, sure put in your two weeks and everything. The article specifically talks about bad bosses though, so that probably ain't the subject.

Nuzzerino 8y ago
> Decency and respect in general is a two-way street. If your boss is an asshole and the company doesn't give a single lonely shit you don't owe it "common decency". People seem to forget that quitting with no notice also screws one's co-workers. And often times it's the "innocent" co-workers that are affected the worst. I've learned far too late in life that there is never a justification for being a jerk, especially as the unintended and unwanted side effects will reap subtle mayhem around you.
dfxm12 8y ago
Don't equate "your boss" with "the company". You're absolutely right, your boss could be the reason you're quitting, but by and large, your boss is probably just another cog in the same machine that is causing you grief as well.
- masklinn 8y ago
  If your boss is a great person, you probably know about it even if they get put in a bad way by the company and that's got consequences for you. If you're getting no respect back for the respect you put in, and you're not quitting despite your boss, the distinction is immaterial.
throwaway5752 8y ago
"Decency and respect in general is a two-way street" No it isn't. Decency and respect is a way you choose to conduct yourself. I treat everyone with decency and respect. I choose not to associate with people that are immoral or toxic, but I will treat them with decency and respect because I will not let someone else's conduct dictate how I act. If your boss is bad, resign as soon as possible with 2 weeks notice and wipe your hands of it.
- adfm 8y ago
  This is what is referred to as the Golden Rule. https://www.gotquestions.org/Golden-Rule.html https://www.gotquestions.org/Golden-Rule.html It's an interesting hack on quid pro quo that I recommend to everyone.
  - username223 8y ago
    Then you can upgrade to the Categorical Imperative: "do unto others as they have done to you" becomes "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," which becomes "do what you would want all others to do." It's subtle, but important.
    - naniwaduni 8y ago
      It's a subtle change with great appeal to universalizing thinkers, but one which, as commonly formulated, makes many suggestions that seem intuitively wrong without adding a lot of qualifiers, and at that point you've just punted the task of formalizing ethics one level up.
      - username223 8y ago
        Can you elaborate? As far as I understand it, the difference between the Golden Rule and the Categorical Imperative is acting in ways that don't involve reciprocity. The former is a rule against stabbing other people; the latter is also a rule that people going around stabbing themselves would be a bad idea.
briandear 8y ago
It’s called “character.” It does matter. The way I choose to conduct myself is a reflection of me, not a reflection of the failings of those with whom I deal. Treating everyone as you wish to be treated is good policy even if they don’t do the same for you.
yingw787 8y ago
I disagree; I and a few other good coworkers were managed by a pretty horrible boss (pretty horrible as in he is known by name as a horrible person to work for by multiple corporate HR departments and recruiting agencies in our metropolitan area who all wanted to poach us), and I think we all gave our two weeks notices when we could. You should always act in a way that optimizes your own desirability as an employee or a person to be associated with in order to keep your options open. It's very rare to find yourself on a hill worth dying on, and to have that hill be clearly seen by others. For me, that standard is not letting an employee go to a funeral, or be at the birth of your child, or something timeboxed and will cause similar extreme emotional/mental pain and duress. Of course, the flip side is to not have your internal judgments skewed by constant interactions with said boss or bosses. I'm guessing that's how you become a bad boss or employee over time.
stcredzero 8y ago
Decency and respect in general is a two-way street. No. If you have a morality which says you can act as badly as the worst life throws at you, then your moral conduct isn't stable. You can't have a morality like that, and have something like human rights. Human rights are supposed to be inherent. You can't take them away simply because you're ticked off, or you're practicing tit-for-tat. You can't simply nominate yourself as judge, jury, and executioner. If you would advocate for human dignity, you not only have to advocate for yourself. You have to do it for others. You have to advocate for human dignity for people you do not like, and for people who you might find offensive or who may even have offended you. If you don't, then you don't believe in human dignity as a principle. You just believe in dignity for yourself and what you can get through whatever power happens to be in your reach.
white-flame 8y ago
> If your boss is an asshole and the company doesn't give a single lonely shit you don't owe it "common decency". The important word here is "common". Precisely and pedantically, if you think it's only earned by some, then decency is uncommon for you.

grigjd3 8y ago

It's easy when your boss is reasonable. I've gotten a verbal lashing from my boss before when I was promoted out of his department.

Shivetya 8y ago

well in my case and others, turning in a formal notice can mean access to unused vacation pay and even benefits for the next thirty days. the examples used in this article were all poor. they picked obviously underpaid hourly positions where walk outs and no shows are not an uncommon exit method. hell in some areas and jobs you can walk out one month and get hired a few weeks or months down the road

le-mark 8y ago
Hell, some companies will even walk you out (terminate, fire) when you give notice, and deny you the two weeks earning you would've made. I've seen this happen at multiple companies, to multiple people, myself included.

stronglikedan 8y ago

While I generally agree, I can imagine that there are some people out there that have been treated so poorly by their bosses, that they either feel it would not be a productive conversation, or they are just flat out afraid of their bosses reaction (and rightly so), or (as in the case of the article) they feel that extreme action is the only course of action that get their point across. Although, to that last point, one of the bosses at my job (but not my department) is like that, and he still cannot figure out why people up and quit on him, even though he's just a complete shit-head. I must admit to a enjoying healthy dose of schadenfreude whenever it happens.

darawk 8y ago

> A company will fire you with absolutely no hesitation or mercy if they feel it is good for their bottom line You can also quit with no hesitation or mercy. However, basically no employers on earth will simply stop sending you your paychecks and let it sort itself out, office space style. Which is the equivalent here of 'ghosting' someone.

saidajigumi 8y ago
What, you mean like the US Federal Government?
- mesozoic 8y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpaOy8b8X6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpaOy8b8X6A

droithomme 8y ago

> informing your boss that you're quitting is a reasonably easy thing to do which could help real people at that company and seems like common decency to me Last three times I gave written two week notice I was detained immediately until a security guard could search my pockets and bag, confiscate my company id, and escort me out of the building. All times I was on very good terms with management up to the minute before that. "I regret to inform you that I must terminate my employment, effective immediately." is the phrase I use now, mailed Saturday morning from the post office so it gets there Monday morning. Friday I stay late, clear out all my personal belongings, and commit-in all my in-progress projects.

zdragnar 8y ago
What types of companies were these? I've never had this happen to me, though I've also intentionally avoided overly-corporate settings.
- crankylinuxuser 8y ago
  It's pretty common for Sysad types. Sure, the damage could already have been done, but it makes management feel better that they can eject you right then and there.
- ultrasaurus 8y ago
  It's not uncommon is sales (not stealing the rolodex) or if you're leaving for a competitor.

stcredzero 8y ago

However, I feel that informing your boss that you're quitting is a reasonably easy thing to do which could help real people at that company and seems like common decency to me There is indeed a common decency regression in the current tech workforce. It used to be, that not making an appointment, not making a phone call appointment, and the like were simply not done when it came to job interviews and the hiring process. Lots of tech professionals (as corroborated by people saying so here on HN) seem to think it's okay...stuff happens...maybe they just got busy. Hiring and job interviews are serious business. People's livelihoods are an important issue. It's not the kind of place where it's okay...stuff happens...maybe they just got busy. An attitude like that just strikes me as lacking empathy and awareness of how one is affecting other people. That's not how I think good people behave. (EDIT: I'm not talking about interviewees blowing off the call. I'm talking about interviewers! With great power comes great responsibility.)

michaelt 8y ago
As an interviewer, I try to apply the robustness principle: Be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from others. After all, if I was scheduled to interview someone and they don't turn up, that just means I get a free hour to work on something more interesting!
- stcredzero 8y ago
  As an interviewer, I try to apply the robustness principle: Be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from others. As an interviewer, you are in a position of power. You have more responsibility for the treatment of the other party. My experience in the Bay Area is of interviewers blowing off phone appointments off.

intopieces 8y ago

I agree. A very simple “I choose to terminate my employment with your company effective xx/xx/xxxx” is much more respectable. No need to give a reason, just state the facts and move on. Ghosting seems really immature, like the person doesn’t want to face up to their actions. As well, I was always taught to never burn a bridge because you have no idea who you’re going to see again in the future. Impressions matter.